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botahoratiu
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Joined: 20 Jul 2010
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Location: Medias, Romania
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 Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:45 am Post subject: Boosey & Hawkes Imperial 23 value |
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Hi
I recently got across a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial 23 Bb trumpet in used condition ... not nearly mint(laquer wear in several places). It has a pinky hook moved on the bell for the left handed players(easy fix back).
Does anyone know it's value if in good playing condition?
I'll try to put some photos here if I can.
Here it is a Dropbox link for the pictures (it's more simple for me)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hnu7p43r4z0ceo4/0e7230790748d84ae972079493e5edc1-5233602-1000_1000.jpg?dl=0
Thank you!
Horatiu
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Mike Prestage
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Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I imagine it would sell for around £100, maybe less, in the UK. Besides the moved finger hook, another thing on this one that's a bit offputting is the extra U-shaped brace that's been added between the bell and leadpipe. It could have been added by someone who knew what they were doing to make a genuine improvement to the horn but I wouldn't assume anything!
Mike[/i] |
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Tks for the imput ... I thought that the Imperial 23 was a professional level trumpet back in the 60's. So isn't there a fortune inside?
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Andy Del
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Boosey & Hawkes 'thought' it was a professional grade trumpet.
Big difference in what that manufacturer thought and what players do/did...
cheers
Andy
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Andy Del wrote: | Boosey & Hawkes 'thought' it was a professional grade trumpet.
Big difference in what that manufacturer thought and what players do/did...
cheers
Andy |
Do you refer to the Imperial 72(or something similar)? This one I know it was a student horn
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Bob Stevenson
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| For quite a few years across the WWII era the 'Imperial' WAS the pro groupset for B&H and was used by many pro players including on some famous recordings and, for example, their fanfare trumpets used the Imp components. |
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | | Tks for the imput ... I thought that the Imperial 23 was a professional level trumpet back in the 60's. So isn't there a fortune inside? |
Open a fortune cookie. Extract fortune. Insert in trumpet. Now, there's a fortune in your trumpet.
Heck, it might even improve it's play-ability.
There are classic trumpets from the 60's that are still sought after - Bachs, Benges, Olds, Conn, Besson, etc. However, not all trumpets made back then are that well regarded. You might have found one of those.
| Andy Del wrote: | Boosey & Hawkes 'thought' it was a professional grade trumpet.
Big difference in what that manufacturer thought and what players do/did... |
Hey, if it's not that expensive to fix up, do and see how it plays. If it's a player, horay and keep it. If not, well, then I'm sure you can probably sell it for the equivalent of $50-100.
If you're looking to make big money from old random vintage horns, well, good luck with that.
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I just want to make some benefit without being a jerk
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GordonH
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 2:02 am Post subject: |
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I think that U shaped thing is for the thumb of a left handed player.
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Louise Finch
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:22 am Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | | I just want to make some benefit without being a jerk |
Hi
I'm not really sure what you are thinking of doing with it. I have a Boosey and Hawkes Imperial cornet, and a Boosey and Hawkes Oxford trumpet.
The cornet, the top Boosey and Hawkes model of the time, is not a bad cornet at all, but it is old fashioned, has a smaller bore than todays cornets, a smaller sound, no 1st or 3rd slide intonation aids, and isn't really the cornet for a modern brass band. Mine is in reasonable condition, and I paid £75 for mine as a spare cornet, which lives primarily (except for temperature extremes) in the boot of the car. It only comes out to be re-oiled and greased once in a while.h
My mid 1950s Oxford trumpet is also not bad. It again has a smaller bore than a lot of modern trumpets, and has a tighter wrap, which may be owing to it being a higher student or lower intermediate model, and possibly designed for the smaller hands of younger players, or maybe all Boosey and Hawkes trumpets from this era are all like this, I don't know. I would say that it is an adequate trumpet and nothing special. Your Imperial is a higher model, so it is worth a good thorough play test to see how you feel it compares to a bog standard modern professional trumpet such as the Bach Strad and the Yamaha Xeno. Personally, I think you will notice the difference. Value wise, in all honestly it looks to be in only average condition, unless the photos don't do it any justice, and even if it is in better than average condition, even being a professional model, these trumpets aren't worth much. I agree with Mike Prestage's suggestion of £100.
Take Care
Lou
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Trumpets:
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Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
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Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
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Mike Prestage
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Location: Hereford, UK
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| GordonH wrote: | | I think that U shaped thing is for the thumb of a left handed player. |
Good thinking! Not sure how effective it would really be for supporting the horn but makes sense that that's what they were going for.
Botahoratio, I haven't played one of these so for all I know they might be a reasonable horn but as far as far as market value goes, no trumpets made by the B&H group are worth serious money. Bob Stevenson's comments about the Imperial being popular with pro players around the war era are interesting but there have been a couple of older Imperials offered on Ebay recently for modest prices which haven't sold. This one seems to be a different, newer design (a big difference is the lack of an H piece in the tuning slide for changing to high pitch) and I would guess is if anything is even less sought after.
Mike |
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botahoratiu
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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Thank you all for the comments. I really appreciate our time and knowledge.
So I would be better not buying it 
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Louise Finch
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | Thank you all for the comments. I really appreciate our time and knowledge.
So I would be better not buying it |
Hi
I believe it depends on what you would plan to do with it, and the price. If you are looking for a spare trumpet for playing in more risky venues, you've had a chance to try this one, it plays well, you like how it plays and it is for sale for a reasonable price, then why not. If you are hoping to buy it for a cheap price, and sell it for a lot more than you paid, I don't think that it is that sort of trumpet. It is a trumpet that you buy for a fairly cheap price because you have a particular use for it in mind, and it plays well enough for what you want it for. That was my reason for buying my Oxford trumpet twenty years ago, and why I still have it today.
Take care
Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| botahoratiu wrote: | Thank you all for the comments. I really appreciate our time and knowledge.
So I would be better not buying it |
| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi
I believe it depends on what you would plan to do with it, and the price. If you are looking for a spare trumpet for playing in more risky venues, you've had a chance to try this one, it plays well, you like how it plays and it is for sale for a reasonable price, then why not. If you are hoping to buy it for a cheap price, and sell it for a lot more than you paid, I don't think that it is that sort of trumpet. It is a trumpet that you buy for a fairly cheap price because you have a particular use for it in mind, and it plays well enough for what you want it for. That was my reason for buying my Oxford trumpet twenty years ago, and why I still have it today.
Take care
Lou |
Yeah. +1
I bought a structurally sound but cosmetically challenged Olds Ambassador about 15 years ago. Now, it's worth pretty much the same as when I bought it. I've gotten it cleaned and fixed a few times so I have more money in it than it's worth. However, I bought it to play at Pep Band and other hazardous venues and it's done great for that (I sometimes used it for teaching, too). Monetarily, it was not a great purchase - $80 for the horn, a few cleanings fix-ups were about $80 each, and the horn is now worth .... probably $80. Practically, since it kept my good horns out of harms way, it was a great purchase.
It's not easy to make money on old trumpets. You either have to run into a vintage gem being sold for peanuts or buy $50 student horns and sell them for $100 or $150 without spending much or anything to fix or clean them. Honestly, it's not really worth the bother money-wise. I do it sometimes, so I have some horns to give or sell to kids who are looking for one - I'm not making much, if anything, on them - but that's Ok with me. But, people who think they've found a unknown horn for $50... well... unless it's a Bach Strad, Benge, Selmer Paris, or Olds, it's probably actually worth only $50.
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Basmundi66
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Joined: 16 Jan 2023
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Location: Bridlington UK
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a boosey and hawke imperial 23 with silver plate bell . It is dual bore and it is a great sounding trumpet. Valves have been overhauled with cupronickel. It's a great horn.
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