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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | stay with a name-brand trumpet... chances are much higher that you'll get an instrumnent that will perform up to it's price AND when you need to have work done or want to re-sell they will be viable options.
all of the cheap Asian horns are copies of something, so in design they have some worth BUT are cheap because of materials used and QT in manufacture.
I just had the experince of having to fix a leak in a second valve slide on a students Chinese trumpet that the local repair shops wouldn't touch - they didn't want to deal with the poor quality brass tubing and "silver" plating. Basically the tubing was cut and matched so poorly that it was never sealed at it's joints.
If you're going that route I'd suggest you go for a pTrumpet or tromba (plastic trumpet) - all the ones I've played work and play surprisingly well. |
Agreed.
| Dennis78 wrote: | | There are some American branded student horns made in Asia, and people had the same contention with Yamaha when first introduced. the way I see it is get used vintage and put some money into it to make it great or just buy one of the imports. They are making better horns than they did 10 years ago and of the ones I've played-my Cecilio, a roy benson, and a no name horn all were ok! You just have to do the normal break in stuff. And now many of them come with 3-5 year warranty. Get a horn and start blowing is my suggestion and if you want to continue for more than just kicks get a nice horn |
Yeah, a warranty so they'll happily give you another crappy horn to replace the other crappy one. Hmm....
As a band director and brass teacher, I see these Chinese horns. They are fairly mediocre. I played a student's a while back, and it blew Ok, but after about four months the thing disintegrated completely. The valve stems snapped off in the normal course of playing. Students have brought in Cecilio saxophones that shed keys like dogs shed hair. It's a cool looking blue, but not really playable for longer than a few months. Chinese flutes are delicate, mediocre instruments.
$180 or so seems like a deal, but they're disposable instruments. They're not supposed to last more than 6 months. Bach and Yamaha build student instruments in Asia, too. The Asian built Bach's are better than the Cecilios but fairly poor for a reputable brass maker - the valves are poor in particular. The Yamahas are far better - but in my opinion, not as good as when they made student Yamahas in Japan. Expensive, too.
I've acquired the following horns for less than $180 locally on craigslist (many were significantly less than $180): several Olds Ambassadors, a Holton T602, a Holton T401, a few student line Yamahas, a few Getzen Capri's in silver, a couple Getzen 300's, and an old English Besson. These are real instruments, no disposable toys. They will last years with proper care and be good, solid instruments.
If you're on a budget, there's no better deal than a used trumpet. But a good one, spend a little on cleaning and fixing and you're set for as long as you (or whomever you are looking for) needs it.
Otherwise, call Trent Austin or Quality Brass or a place like that and have them hook you up with something near your budget. Leave the Asian crap for other suckers.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| There are a number of band instrument stores in the Chicago area that have large rental programs and their own repair departments. Karnes Music is one. There's another dealer on the south side whose name escapes me. Large rental programs mean lots of rental returns which are usually for sale. You should be able to find a used name brand instrument for a reasonable price. |
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fabiopereirabr
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 58
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12656
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I suppose the OP might still be looking for a trumpet almost two months after his first and only post... |
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scipioap
Veteran Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2012
Posts: 368
Location: Waltham, MA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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Rusty, I was thinking the same thing. But in case anyone else is looking, and to back up chuck in ny, if I were in the market, I'd snag this value-holding Contempora for $500 before risking on anything from China...
Vintage Reynolds Contempora LB Trumpet |
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JetJaguar
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 1518
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LittleRusty wrote: | | I suppose the OP might still be looking for a trumpet almost two months after his first and only post... |
+1
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1938 Martin Handcraft Imperial #2 bore, 38 bell
Bach 7C mouthpiece
I'm looking for a Connstellation 5C-N or 5B-N mouthpiece
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aspeyr1
Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008
Posts: 105
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| Posted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Bach and Besson student horns are manufactured in China. Maybe there are other brands manufactured there.
I asked some of the people assembling the instruments in the factory if they had any training in making the instruments and they all said they learned on the job. Several of the workers we former farmers from nearby villages. I don't think they purposely make low quality instruments. I do think they just don't know how to do it properly, yet.
I can't honestly say a student model Bach is better than any other chinese made trumpet. |
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dpsv650
New Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2019
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| At the risk of offending all the purists on here, I'll say the TR330 trumpet is more than adequate. I've been playing trumpet for over 50 years, and have owned several different trumpets: Holton, Schilke, Bach, Olds, Selmer, Bundy, Yamaha to name a few. The Jean Paul trumpet definitely punches above its weight. Yes, the mouthpiece is a piece of junk, but you can get a Bach mouthpiece on Ebay for under 20 bucks. In all other respects, this is a very nice trumpet. Well built, with smooth valve action. An excellent horn. Don't let all the naysayers sway you. I've found that most of the "snobs" have no talent, and all their bragging about their Schilke trumpets won't disguise the fact that they have no talent. The simple truth is, if you have the talent, you can make even a craptastic horn sound good. Buy the Jean Paul. You won't regret it. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| dpsv650 wrote: | | At the risk of offending all the purists on here, I'll say the TR330 trumpet is more than adequate. I've been playing trumpet for over 50 years, and have owned several different trumpets: Holton, Schilke, Bach, Olds, Selmer, Bundy, Yamaha to name a few. The Jean Paul trumpet definitely punches above its weight. Yes, the mouthpiece is a piece of junk, but you can get a Bach mouthpiece on Ebay for under 20 bucks. In all other respects, this is a very nice trumpet. Well built, with smooth valve action. An excellent horn. Don't let all the naysayers sway you. I've found that most of the "snobs" have no talent, and all their bragging about their Schilke trumpets won't disguise the fact that they have no talent. The simple truth is, if you have the talent, you can make even a craptastic horn sound good. Buy the Jean Paul. You won't regret it. |
Interesting first post......”no talent”.... “snobs”....very nice. Welcome to TH.🙄
And since the original post is from 2015, I doubt that the original poster is listening, he’s probably moved on to guitar anyway.
Brad
Snob-purist
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When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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dpsv650
New Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2019
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
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| I call them snobs because they are. I used to be one. I've seen quite a few trumpet players open their cases and expect everyone to fall over in awe at their marvelous instrument. Sorry, show me you can play, and then maybe I'll fawn all over you. Not before. I used to hate cheap crap trumpets (still do I suppose). Until I played a Chinese trumpet at a music shop. The thing had wooden valve action, but it sounded fine. I've no doubt that it would have fallen apart in six months tops. I posted that reply mostly to get the word out about Jean Paul trumpets. Jean Paul USA is a great company. Their trumpets have a one year warranty and they go out of their way to make their customers happy. I didn't want to see them painted with the same brush as others for not being a "name" brand. And no, I'm in no way associated with the company. But it's a different world we live in today. For better or for worse, most people are buying their instrument at Amazon. We have to live with it. |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| dpsv650 wrote: | | I call them snobs because they are. I used to be one. I've seen quite a few trumpet players open their cases and expect everyone to fall over in awe at their marvelous instrument. Sorry, show me you can play, and then maybe I'll fawn all over you. Not before. I used to hate cheap crap trumpets (still do I suppose). Until I played a Chinese trumpet at a music shop. The thing had wooden valve action, but it sounded fine. I've no doubt that it would have fallen apart in six months tops. I posted that reply mostly to get the word out about Jean Paul trumpets. Jean Paul USA is a great company. Their trumpets have a one year warranty and they go out of their way to make their customers happy. I didn't want to see them painted with the same brush as others for not being a "name" brand. And no, I'm in no way associated with the company. But it's a different world we live in today. For better or for worse, most people are buying their instrument at Amazon. We have to live with it. |
“......most people are buying their instrument at Amazon....”???
Are you serious? I actually buy from Amazon frequently, but certainly not trumpets, because a majority of the horns they sell are junk. Call that a “snob” attitude if you want to.
I disagree with 90% of what you said above, but that’s fine, we all have opinions.
And BTW, I’ve been playing as long as you have, I currently do a gig every weekend, and guys who think people will be impressed by their equipment are generally the inexperienced kids. Nobody CARES, unless you can’t play, in which case the equipment is irrelevant.
Hey, play whatever ebay/Amazon TSO horn you like, but referring to those of us who choose to play better instruments as “snobs” is offensive and basically inaccurate, and I GET the concept, a horn will not make an incompetent player sound much different.
Again, this whole discussion is based on a post from four years ago, I’ll stop wasting time and forum space on this now. Enjoy your Jean Paul.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:59 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Crazy Finn
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Joined: 27 Dec 2001
Posts: 8333
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: |
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There’s plenty of space between being a horn snob and being realistic about no-name horns.
My low opinion of these is having those “craptastic” horns literally fall apart in my hands: valve stems snapping off under minimal pressure, threaded caps that don’t thread, slides that come apart when pulled, metal so cheap that even beer cans are thicker. When you pop a brace, you can’t even re-attach it because when you apply a little heat, not only does the brace start to melt, but so does the lead pipe or bell.
Frankly, it sucks to have to tell a parent that the horn they spent $200-300 on is broken, unfixable, and essentially useless now. Sure, they only spent $200 on it, but still. A few of those conversations and maybe you would feel differently.
I don’t have any idea about the “Jean Paul” instruments, but the one saxophone I saw was pretty crappy.
I haven’t polished my silver horns for a decade, most of my horns look like they belong on a wall of a bar, and while I prefer my vintage Selmer and Benge, but I don’t turn my nose up at anything that was built with some degree of care if it plays well.
If having a low (and informed) opinion about these horn makes me a snob, then I’m guilty as charged.
_________________
LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Brad361
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Crazy Finn wrote: | There’s plenty of space between being a horn snob and being realistic about no-name horns.
My low opinion of these is having those “craptastic” horns literally fall apart in my hands: valve stems snapping off under minimal pressure, threaded caps that don’t thread, slides that come apart when pulled, metal so cheap that even beer cans are thicker. When you pop a brace, you can’t even re-attach it because when you apply a little heat, not only does the brace start to melt, but so does the lead pipe or bell.
Frankly, it sucks to have to tell a parent that the horn they spent $200-300 on is broken, unfixable, and essentially useless now. Sure, they only spent $200 on it, but still. A few of those conversations and maybe you would feel differently.
I don’t have any idea about the “Jean Paul” instruments, but the one saxophone I saw was pretty crappy.
I haven’t polished my silver horns for a decade, most of my horns look like they belong on a wall of a bar, and while I prefer my vintage Selmer and Benge, but I don’t turn my nose up at anything that was built with some degree of care if it plays well.
If having a low (and informed) opinion about these horn makes me a snob, then I’m guilty as charged. |
+1, at least.
As you mentioned, it’s one thing for an adult to choose to buy one of those TSO’s, it’s quite another when a well intentioned parent or grandparent buys one for a student, not realizing what they’ve just ****** away a couple of hundred bucks on something that will soon self destruct. But referring to those who make more informed decisions as “snobs” is like referring to someone who avoids buying other low priced junk, often Asian manufacturered, in the same manner. And again, I KNOW not everything made in Asia is poorly made, Carol Brass is a good example.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
Posts: 3298
Location: Endwell NY USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Late posts to old threads shows that those threads are still of interest - people (members, non-member, etc.) do find old posts that contain info about their current interests.
If I have something 'helpful' to add, or want to revive an old discussion, I will likely add a new post - I don't see a problem with that.
Jay
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Most Important Note ? - the next one !
KNOW (see) what the next note is BEFORE you have to play it.
PLAY the next note 'on time' and 'in rhythm'.
Oh ya, watch the conductor - they set what is 'on time'. |
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Dennis78
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 673
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| JayKosta wrote: | Late posts to old threads shows that those threads are still of interest - people (members, non-member, etc.) do find old posts that contain info about their current interests.
If I have something 'helpful' to add, or want to revive an old discussion, I will likely add a new post - I don't see a problem with that.
Jay |
+1
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a few different ones |
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LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 12656
Location: Gardena, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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I for one am glad to see old posts resurrected with new and pertinent information.
What I find distasteful is the need to take shots at everyone else in order to make one’s opinion seem more informed. |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Geodude wrote: | Chicago Craigslist currently has a Getzen 490 listed for $250.
Good luck with your hunt. |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpBWsZwDpqY&app=desktop
Getzen Artist and Chicago freelanceer Nick Drozdoff on the Getzen 490. |
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Brad361
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Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 7080
Location: Houston, TX.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Guys like Nick Drozdoff can of course make anything sound great, but I’m not sure that’s the point here. Any Getzen horn is of course high quality, and someone like Nick could probably also make an Amazon 200.00 TSO sound good, but that doesn’t help the kid who gets one of those and has to deal with bad valves, bad slides, etc. You absolutely can get a quality used student horn in the 2-300.00 range, but again, a well intentioned parent (or to be honest here, a parent who simply doesn’t want to invest much in an instrument, for various reasons) sees a brand NEW shiny Jean Tristar Schiller Monique “band director approved” ebay deal and buys it, for their kid who is now stuck with it. Until it becomes unplayable, at which time the phrase “too good to be true” starts to run through mom or dad’s mind.
Brad
_________________
When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Last edited by Brad361 on Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Speed
Veteran Member
Joined: 13 May 2015
Posts: 295
Location: Mississippi
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| Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure about the snobs, but we seem to have attracted a troll. For best results, don't feed it.
Take care,
Marc Speed |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:42 am Post subject: |
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True that Nick can make a sewer pipe sound good. The point is that he is putting his reputation on the line by endorsing the instrument. His "go-to" trumpet is an old large bore Severinson. He comes by his enthusiasm honestly. $250 for that horn is a steal for an excellent instrument. |
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