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Playing with full upper dentures.


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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:13 am    Post subject: Playing with full upper dentures. Reply with quote

I'm a 72 year young comeback player some 20 years ago. I recently had my
upper front teeth removed due to many broken and cracked and missing
teeth. Presently I am fitted with a temp upper denture. Before the final
impression is to be done I'd like some information from denture players on
what to expect and for the proper placement of finished denture to maintain
my playing ability and tone. Gums are healing fine so I have time to prepare. I am bummed out about this.) Thank You Fred
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chrisf3000
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Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 344
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I personally have not had dentures, but I did teach a 72 year old several years ago that got his teeth pulled and had to get dentures. He told me that if I ever had to get them, remember a few things:

1. The powder is better than the paste for holding the dentures in place
2. Let them set at least 1/2 hour (to an hour) before you play. The back pressure can easily pop them out of place if they're not set yet.
3. Your embouchure may feel different each time you play, especially due to the fact that your teeth may or may not be in the exact same position each time.

Hope that helps!
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Kimberly
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Joined: 27 Mar 2011
Posts: 128
Location: Hillside, IL

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had to get dentures about 15 years ago. I have a full plate on the top and two incisors anchoring the bottom plate. The gum line on the top provides very good stabilization. I have never had a problem with dentures slipping or moving at all as long as the paste is fresh (within the last 18-24 hours). If the paste is not fresh, the upper might break the seal and start to vibrate as I play. If that happens the feeling on the roof of my mouth is intolerable and I would have to stop and reapply a line of paste. I avoid that by brushing and reapplying paste before I leave to play.

I was advised to leave the two incisors on the bottom as the gum line on the bottom is not as pronounced and does not provide the same level of stabilization as the gum line of the top. That said, when I play, it doesn't seem that the the stability lower teeth is as critical as the uppers.

As far as playing with dentures, it takes a while to adapt your embouchure to the new underlying support. I had my dentures replaced about a year ago and even though I stressed the importance of replicating the front dentures - they were not the same and did not fee the same. I could play but I would say it took several weeks to regain a good "feel".

Finally, I've never experienced the problem described here:
Quote:
3. Your embouchure may feel different each time you play, especially due to the fact that your teeth may or may not be in the exact same position each time.

My dentures are well fitted to my gums and set in one place every time I put them in. Some minor looseness will develop in your first set of dentures due to continued healing of your gums but your dentist will have you come back after about 6 months and reline the dentures. Once they are relined they should fit well again.

Kimberly
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You All for your posts here. I know I'm not alone, but every bit of
info will help me. I expected progress would go faster, but nothing will get
done till gums get better. I lost eight pounds from not eating regularly, but
manage on soft foods. My smile looks good but I'd rather play my
trumpet. You don't realize how much you miss something until you don't
have it. Thanks for being here to help others overcome issues. Fred
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american boy
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Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 344
Location: ny

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred; They might come back from the lab feeling a little bigger then you expected; What you need to do is be patient;Lots of soft long tones,easy lip slurs,build from middle G in both directions..and don't expect it to feel the same,BUT,it will start to get comfortable with time;Practice with lots of rests;Also I agree with Kimberly as to using powder instead of paste..ALSO,if the money thing is possible,you might want to check into what they are doing now with implant supported dentures; I keep playing lotto dreaming of..but that`s another story!
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jhatpro
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Joined: 17 Mar 2002
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Location: The Land Beyond O'Hare

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dentures may make trumpet playing more challenging but it can be done and done well. Roy Eldridge and Red Rodney are two players that come to mind who played extraordinarily well with dentures (and eventually, in Rodney's case, implants paid for legend has it by Frank Sinatra.)

Here's a You Tube video from a guy who plays really well with several false teeth - not full uppers - but he has some good advice for players with dental issues.

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIHTXK5VgiEAYGA0nIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTByN2RnbHFoBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMw--?p=Trumpet+Players+and+Dentures&vid=827a7f5b792dbeb3f937e2dcc23d47f3&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DWN.Cv19h8h%252fyGy4DASrEPG%252fUg%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D168%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D1dqL5RoIqqI&tit=Double+D%26%2339%3Bs+on+a+Bach+7c+with+false+teeth&c=2&h=168&w=300&l=144&sigr=11bji6rob&sigt=11cs3d3sa&sigi=12ob3gekk&age=1369285537&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=yhs-SGMedia-sgm_fb&hsimp=yhs-sgm_fb&hspart=SGMedia&tt=b
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Again, I appreciate all the help. At present using my temp denture
I'm able to play but my tone sounds like a over buzz. Looking at my teeth
and lip position(relaxed) it seems that front teeth are lower than lip. I
mentioned this to the lab tech and he said the gums are not ready yet so
denture will not fit well to upper roof, to bring teeth up more. The new
denture(finished) will fit better. I also feel the teeth are bigger than my
real ones were. I understand the denture will feel bigger as the gums heal.
Explaining embouchure to any none musician(lab tech) is probably not the
time now, but I want all information out there so I get the proper fit. Fred
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american boy
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Joined: 22 Sep 2012
Posts: 344
Location: ny

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred; I`v been going through dental stuff for years,and I really have to tell you to try to forget how it felt before,and let the chops fall into place..air attacks.Long soft notes.Lip slurs.Patience..Also,if you can handle a slightly bigger mouthpiece,that can help too..I remember years ago,I went on a tour for a pretty tough broadway show just weeks after getting a bridge across my top 6 central teeth..I was hired to play lead and I was frankly sh...ng my pants wondering if I could make it..but needed the $ (new baby, expenses)..Anyway,the first rehearsal was a little rough,but when I just focused on air and sound,it started to improve fast..If I was fretting about how it felt,I don't think I could have gotten through it..I stayed out there for 6 months and did a decent job,so there is hope
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You All. Will keep in touch as my aspirations will follow.
Posts have been very helpful and appreciated. Fred
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Harry Hilgers
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Joined: 16 Jun 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: deleted Reply with quote

deleted

Last edited by Harry Hilgers on Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was hoping someone with full upper dentures would pipe in, and I
appreciate it. Its good to hear that you had little problem with your
playing. I expect to see the same results, its my patience that gets in
my way.(Or lack of it). I've got a couple of more fittings to do, and if
gums are healed and new denture is properly fitted I can't wait to get
started all over again. This time around I'm going to focus on a more
monkey lip(embouchure) . Thank YOU All Again Fred
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gums are healing little at a time. Able to play a little more. Notes are starting to come back. Need more adjustments to get denture up more to
roof of mouth. I think air is not going freely through lips. Teeth lower or
on line with lips. Lab tech says gums not healed yet.
Waiting is the hardest. Fred
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well today is a good day I just got back from another adjustment to
my denture. I took my horn out and started playing.My tone came back
and lips have more elasticity. I still need to get my range back, so practice
will take care of that. They said it would take 6 months for gums to heal,
but my temp denture will work for now for playing. The new denture will
fit like a glove and I probably won't know I have them in. I am so happy.
I will be playing at a funeral tomorrow for the first time since have upper
teeth taken out.I went from disappointed to trilled in a blink of an eye.
I will keep you all posted for those experiencing denture work and playing.
I appreciate all comments and posts. Fred
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DaveH
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Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fred Miodowski wrote:
Well today is a good day I just got back from another adjustment to
my denture. I took my horn out and started playing.My tone came back
and lips have more elasticity. I still need to get my range back, so practice
will take care of that. They said it would take 6 months for gums to heal,
but my temp denture will work for now for playing. The new denture will
fit like a glove and I probably won't know I have them in. I am so happy.
I will be playing at a funeral tomorrow for the first time since have upper
teeth taken out.I went from disappointed to trilled in a blink of an eye.
I will keep you all posted for those experiencing denture work and playing.
I appreciate all comments and posts. Fred


Keep posting, Fred, and great to hear things are going well. I am encouraged by your report of the possibilities of being able to play successfully.

I may very likely face this issue at some future time as well. Sharing your experience is invaluable and highly encouraging. Thanks.
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I played Taps for the first time since having my upper teeth
removed and a temp denture put in. I think I over practiced at the
Cemetery because I had all I could do todo a good job. Normally it is effortless. I play in Bb concert but playing G was a challenge. My embrochure has changed a little and need to do some lip work. I think
once my finish denture is complete and gums are good to go, I think
I will be OK. Well I have 3 more funerals to attend this week so I'll
practice lightly and see what happens. I may have to go gradually to
build up instead of going full steam ahead. My tone is better but I still
have a over buzz sound when I play.Some notes are clear others are
raspey in sound. I'll keep my players posted.Have a great day. Fred
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well playing is getting better, but still a way to go. I played at 4 more
funerals and managed to do a decent job. When I warm up my chops are
stronger and range is no problem. After warm up my lips get tired. Posts
here has helped me greatly, support and advice.
I have no problem with denture in my mouth, its the muscle that is
stretched and needs to be redirected to a new posture. This will take
awhile and slurs and scales and holding notes will greatly help.
The circulation of blood in my lip is very good due to I think the raspy
notes I get at times. Not all notes are raspy, only when warming up.
It's only been a month now, so I think I'm pretty lucky I've come this
far in such a short time. Thank You All Again. Fred
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DaveH
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Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep posting your progress, Fred, I'm watching closely in case I get to this same point someday.

I'm very glad to hear that playing is not only possible, but can even be done to a good level of proficiency...that's great!
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dave. Thank You for your support. A dentist long time ago said your
real teeth are far better and stronger than any replacement.
I played with two front teeth, when a crown on one of the front teeth came
off, that when time came to take them out. I waited till I could not play
anymore before getting denture. It's true your smile would be better and
food would digest better, but believe me not all Dentists know about brass
players and their concerns. Looking back and not being in a hurry, do some
homework and get details before getting dentures. My temp denture stays
in very well, and difficult to take out at times. I'm looking forward to the
finished denture so I can bone up and get on with my life. I wish you the
best and I'll keep everyone up to date. Take Care Fred
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DaveH
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Joined: 20 Nov 2001
Posts: 3861

PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt about it. Natural teeth are clearly the ideal situation.

However, it is encouraging that playing trumpet can still be accomplished if circumstances require replacements.

No doubt some new techniques would need to be developed, and even perhaps some playing adjustments made. But, that is better than not playing at all.
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Fred Miodowski
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Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We both share the same compassion. I'm not a quitter, but take this
challenge to better by playing skills and change some bad habits I
acquired through many years of playing.
Some players have not had any bad experiences with their dentures, and
I can see light that the finished product will determine that I made the
right decision. I can play now, but I'm not were I want to be. When I get
my tone back, then I'll know I'm good to go. I look forward to letting
everyone know how my finished denture worked out. Another 3 months
should I hope comes quick. I love playing and miss it very much.
Dave, If there were anything I could do to save my front teeth I surely
would have. Taking them out for me was a last resort. Fred
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