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Efficiency is misleading?


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Peter Bond
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the face of it, efficiency is getting the most for the least.
In my experience as player and teacher, it's almost NEVER about the equipment, but rather the player's technique or approach.
Most players are inefficient in that they fight themselves, usually resorting to wind power to overcome a dysfunctional or less-than-optimal embouchure:

A dysfunctional embouchure requires wind power to force it to vibrate, calling for added m'piece pressure, which means yet more wind power, etc. A downward spiral.
A merely inefficient set-up can create an acceptable sound, but requires a great deal of air, and subtleties become difficult or impossible. Phrase length also suffers; one is always looking for places to breathe. Everything sounds the same.

When embouchure, mouth shape, and air are balanced optimally, the trumpet can really 'sing,' resulting in the clearest, most beautiful tone with very little physical effort. Endurance, phrase length, and beauty of sound are vastly improved. In fact, beauty and clarity of sound is the primary benefit.
Played correctly, the trumpet can seem to defy the laws of physics regarding energy in and energy out.
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kalijah
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Played correctly, the trumpet can seem to defy the laws of physics regarding energy in and energy out.


Only if you mistakenly compare it to other systems, such as the vocal tract system. And you accept that as the baseline of effort and then insert the results of the trumpet.

The much stronger impedance of the trumpet allows it to hold more energy.
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Peter Bond
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kalijah wrote:
Quote:
Played correctly, the trumpet can seem to defy the laws of physics regarding energy in and energy out.


Only if you mistakenly compare it to other systems, such as the vocal tract system. And you accept that as the baseline of effort and then insert the results of the trumpet.

The much stronger impedance of the trumpet allows it to hold more energy.


Read carefully; "...SEEM to defy..."
I'm speaking of the way in which most players think about and indeed, approach the instrument. It's perception.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there are some very good posts here by several different people, and everybody is describing the same thing in their own words.
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Jerry Freedman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like "resonance", efficiency needs a good and accepted definition to be discussed without confusion and miscommunication
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dstdenis
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Joined: 25 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
I think there are some very good posts here by several different people, and everybody is describing the same thing in their own words.

+1.

Craig Swartz wrote:
If you'd like some excellent exercises or discussion I suggest you purchase John Daniels' "Special Studies" book...

+1. I've found this book very helpful, not only for defining efficiency (effort required to play something), but also explaining why it matters:

John Daniel, in his book Special Studies for Trumpet wrote:
A trumpet player who learns how to play one piece of music after another may or may not develop an efficient approach to playing. Without an efficient approach to playing, it is only a matter of time before a piece of music shows up that cannot be played, regardless of work ethic...

So you can assign x as the amount of effort required for an easy note to be played. You know that all the harder notes are going to be related to that easy note by factors of x, 2x, 3x, etc. Getting stronger means gaining the ability to multiply x. Getting more efficient means reducing the value of x, and is something you can control on a daily basis.

And then he provides about 20 pages of exercises specifically designed to improve efficiency (although the other chapters help with efficiency too). I've been working out of this book for about 4 months now, and I've found that this has helped improve my embouchure response and efficiency. It also helps me recover the first few days after a strenuous rehearsal or performance.
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StupidBrassObsession
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the great thing about all the awesome responses to this thread is that it actually shows how many different ways there are to think about efficiency.

And that it's really not a term with a single definition.

For example, in a way, using mouthpiece pressure to control pitch is actually a very efficient way of approaching the instrument from a muscular effort point of view... Except that it's not efficient in a 'keeping the lips vibrating' way.

And same thing with most aspects of trumpet playing.

I guess what i'm ultimately getting at is that efficiency is a terms that is hard to apply broadly to the instrument.

From what I can tell, synchronicity or balance of all the playing elements is the basis of real efficiency... Finding the point where you can establish balance with the least effort is true efficiency
Which may mean doing more or less of any individual element...

What do you all think?

-
p.s. I remember John Hagstrom really emphasising balance in the clinic on youtube. He said something like "People think the Chicago school is all about air, but it's about balance." (I may have mis-remembered that though. I'll have to look up the clinic and check later on)
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Hugh Anderson
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Joined: 22 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject: Efficiency Reply with quote

If a heavy horn is efficient, then a light horn should be inefficient. So a plastic horn would be inefficient. True?
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JayKosta
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Joined: 24 Dec 2018
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PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2020 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there is too much mention of efficiency - and I don't really understand what players desire when they say they want it.

To my thinking, the only place where efficiency is a concern is to increase endurance - specifically endurance of the embouchure muscles. The need for efficiency in that situation might be to require less physical embouchure muscle effort to produce the desired notes and loudness, and thereby increase playing endurance.

Most players have plenty of lung capacity to supply the needed amount of air. And most also have the necessary torso muscle ability to generate high internal air pressure.

Do player really want better effectiveness from the instrument?

Jay
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