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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:21 pm Post subject: DIY Gold Plating |
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Anyone out there do their own gold plating?
Since many things trumpet come silver plated (mouthpieces) shouldn't it be pretty easy to gold plate ones self?
I've seen some really cheap kits online, around $25. Has anyone tried anything like this?
Also, what is the minimum one would need to invest to start a small gold plating operation (thinking nothing bigger than a tuba mouthpiece)?
Thanks! |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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Brush electroplating gold - but the layer may be too weakly connected to the substrate if plating directly on brass. Usually, gold is plated over silver. |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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etc-etc wrote: | Brush electroplating gold - but the layer may be too weakly connected to the substrate if plating directly on brass. Usually, gold is plated over silver. |
??
I would try gold plating a silver plated mouthpiece.
Brush electroplating looks pretty cheap. Can I just dip the mouthpiece in the solution after activating it? |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6177
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Your posts have nothing to do with my questions, but thanks for the interesting read! |
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mm55 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013 Posts: 1412
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:51 am Post subject: |
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aspeyr1 wrote: |
Your posts have nothing to do with my questions, but thanks for the interesting read! |
Understanding the chemistry would seem to be a good thing to do before starting a small gold plating operation, which was one of your questions. |
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Greenleaf Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 536
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Doesn't a quality gold plating job use nasty stuff like cyanide? IMHO, better left to those who know what they're doing. I know I'm not going there and I consider myself to be a DIY kind of guy. _________________
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:48 am Post subject: |
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Greenleaf is correct, the BEST method of plating gold requires cyanide. In an effort to get around local restrictions on cyanide baths we tried the alternative acid gold solutions with no reliable repeatable success.
This is why we rely on the Anderson Plating to do our silver and gold plating. They are the experts without compare, not to mentionit saves us the trouble of environmental compliance.
My 2 cents. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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James Becker wrote: | Greenleaf is correct, the BEST method of plating gold requires cyanide. In an effort to get around local restrictions on cyanide baths we tried the alternative acid gold solutions with no reliable repeatable success.
This is why we rely on the Anderson Plating to do our silver and gold plating. They are the experts without compare, not to mentionit saves us the trouble of environmental compliance.
My 2 cents. |
Thanks for your reply!
I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success.
I'm just going to go ahead and purchase the $25 kit and see what happens! I'll post the results, good or bad. I'm not expecting it to look as if I just had Anderson Plating work on it, but we'll see. |
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bach_again Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2005 Posts: 2479 Location: Northern Ireland
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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aspeyr1 wrote: | James Becker wrote: | Greenleaf is correct, the BEST method of plating gold requires cyanide. In an effort to get around local restrictions on cyanide baths we tried the alternative acid gold solutions with no reliable repeatable success.
This is why we rely on the Anderson Plating to do our silver and gold plating. They are the experts without compare, not to mentionit saves us the trouble of environmental compliance.
My 2 cents. |
Thanks for your reply!
I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success.
I'm just going to go ahead and purchase the $25 kit and see what happens! I'll post the results, good or bad. I'm not expecting it to look as if I just had Anderson Plating work on it, but we'll see. |
Those kits plate very thin. Don't expect much beyond it looking gold for a little while. Anderson are very reasonably priced!! _________________ Maestro Arturo Sandoval on Barkley Microphones!
https://youtu.be/iLVMRvw5RRk
Michael Barkley Quartet - Portals:
https://michaelbarkley.bandcamp.com/album/portals
The best movie trumpet solo?
https://youtu.be/OnCnTA6toMU |
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JonathanM Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Aug 2007 Posts: 2018 Location: Charleston, SC
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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aspeyr1 wrote: | James Becker wrote: | Greenleaf is correct, the BEST method of plating gold requires cyanide. In an effort to get around local restrictions on cyanide baths we tried the alternative acid gold solutions with no reliable repeatable success.
This is why we rely on the Anderson Plating to do our silver and gold plating. They are the experts without compare, not to mentionit saves us the trouble of environmental compliance.
My 2 cents. |
Thanks for your reply!
I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success.
I'm just going to go ahead and purchase the $25 kit and see what happens! I'll post the results, good or bad. I'm not expecting it to look as if I just had Anderson Plating work on it, but we'll see. |
Do let us know how it goes. I'm sure there are many not writing in that have considered the same - you're results will be interesting to hear. Good luck! _________________ Jonathan Milam
Trumpets: 18043B, 18043*, 18043 Sterling Silver +, 18037 SterlingSilver+, Benge 4x, Olds: '34 Symphony, '47 Super, '52 Recording
Flugle: Strad 182
Puje: American Belle
Cornet: Olds Recording & Super |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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aspeyr1 wrote: | I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success. |
Like who?
For $25, you'll probably get what you pay for, but it's your money. Have fun! _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Brad361 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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I guess all you are risking is a mouthpiece (as opposed to an entire horn), but this sounds to me like DIY is not going to have a great result. And if in fact it's going to require toxic substances (cyanide???!!!).....I would not try it.
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval |
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LittleRusty Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Posts: 12656 Location: Gardena, Ca
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | aspeyr1 wrote: | I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success. |
Like who?
For $25, you'll probably get what you pay for, but it's your money. Have fun! |
Gold is $35 a gram at the moment. Figure that the cost of the product is probably half the selling price and you end up with about 1/3 of a gram of gold in the solution in the most generous case. ($12.50 into $35)
I don't know how much gold there is on a mouthpiece but that surely doesn't seem like the solution will have much gold in it. |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | aspeyr1 wrote: | I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success. |
Like who?
For $25, you'll probably get what you pay for, but it's your money. Have fun! |
did a simple google search for "gold electroplating no cyanide" and one the first results was for this plater;
http://www.goldchops.com/
Searched him and he has a very good reputation among TH'ers |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Brad361 wrote: | I guess all you are risking is a mouthpiece (as opposed to an entire horn), but this sounds to me like DIY is not going to have a great result. And if in fact it's going to require toxic substances (cyanide???!!!).....I would not try it.
Brad |
There are several non-cyanide ways to electroplate now. I did not purchase a kit that contains cyanide.
Thanks for the concern (I was worried about this also) |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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LittleRusty wrote: | Crazy Finn wrote: | aspeyr1 wrote: | I'm curious why the alternative solution did not yield repeatable success. It seems at least a few other professionals use cyanide-free more "eco-friendly" solutions with much success. |
Like who?
For $25, you'll probably get what you pay for, but it's your money. Have fun! |
Gold is $35 a gram at the moment. Figure that the cost of the product is probably half the selling price and you end up with about 1/3 of a gram of gold in the solution in the most generous case. ($12.50 into $35)
I don't know how much gold there is on a mouthpiece but that surely doesn't seem like the solution will have much gold in it. |
The density of 24K gold plating is approx. 12.45mg for each square inch of area plated to a thickness of one micron,(~0.00004 inch)... Therefore, if evenly distributed, 1 gram of 24K gold will plate approximately 160 square inches of area to a thickness of 1/2 micron. .5 microns is the minimum thickness of gold plating for jewelry items to be sold as "gold plated" in the United States under the US Federal Trade Commission standards.
That being said, I have no idea of the surface area of a standard mouthpiece. But I would assume it couldn't be more than 3 square inches. If my estimation is even close it looks like you would be able to plate at least 50 mouthpieces with a solution containing one gram of gold.
Seems like not a bad deal! I'd definitely pay for the $35 dollars in gold to plate that many mouthpieces. |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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I have just finished plating several mouthpiece rims and cups with gold plate. A Japanese trombonist friend sourced me a kit from Japan which cost 75-80$. He has been plating mouthpieces for some years and finds the plating lasts at least 3 years before he applies another coat.
The kit comprises gold (24K), copper and nickel plating solution. The applicator has a brush with a battery bull dog clip on the end which supplies the electric charge.
BTW I plated the rim and cup of 2 of my favorite pieces and found gold plating the cup definitely affected the sound contrary to popular opinion. The sound became more dark which I wasn't after for those particular pieces so I removed the gold and the sound leap back to life. I have a rotary mp which has a gold plated cup and I love the smoothness of the rich dark sound. |
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trumpet56 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623
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Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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I forgot to mention, the secret to successful DIY plating is the careful and thorough preparation before applying the gold. The mouthpiece must be free of any dirt and oils etc. Good luck. |
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aspeyr1 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2008 Posts: 105
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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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So I received the $25 gold plaiting kit and successfully gold plated a few things! I would love to post pics, but don't really know how.
I've also played on the one of the mouthpieces significantly for 3 days expecting the gold plating to wear off and it has not.
Again, I would love to post pics I just don't know how...[/img] |
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