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What's magic about the six notes?


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dkwolfe
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:50 pm    Post subject: What's magic about the six notes? Reply with quote

Good Evening;

I've been working on my playing and buzzing, and I know that one of my big problems is with air support/supply (yes, I'm taking lessons, and my instructor has been exceedingly helpful with all aspects of my playing). So in looking for exercises that would help with this, and hence my tone and playing, I've stumbled on the "6 magic notes" several times.

So, what is "magic" about the 6 notes? Aside from being similar to a long tone or flow study, I'm not seeing the "magic" part. I've read what the exercises are, and played them several times. But I still can't help thinking that I'm either: missing something, or the term "magic" has been miss-applied.

Thanks in advance for all your input.

D
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Trumpetmannj
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you don't feel a little burn in your corners after you do it twice without taking the horn off of your face you are probably doing them wrong.
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is intended as a calisthenic exercise.

As part of the Caruso approach you should make sure that your corners (really your entire embouchure) stays in the "playing position" and doesn't relax.

Quote:

If you don't feel a little burn in your corners after you do it twice without taking the horn off of your face you are probably doing them wrong.


Should be pretty true for the first long while that you're doing these exercises
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 9:25 pm    Post subject: there Reply with quote

there is, no magic, in the 6 notes.
now, carry on.
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dkwolfe
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good morning;

Thanks for the replies, now it makes more sense. Knowing that it's supposed to be like an athlete's trip to the weight room makes things a bit clearer.

Thanks,

D
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Robert Rizzo
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just listen to Chuck Findley play
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Chuck Reply with quote

Chuck would play great no matter what he did.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let’s Review!

Mr. Caruso created his method partly by observing how many trumpet players do various things to manipulate their embouchure to change pitches. He got a reputation as a clinician who could "fix" professional trumpet players with problems. So the walking wounded from the many road bands would line up at his door, (literally).

Some would:
- twist the horn to stretch the vibrating surface
- increase pressure on crooked teeth to allow the lips to slide from a high spot to a lower spot thus stretching the vibrating surface
-roll in and lower the angle of the horn
-jut out the jaw to raise the angle of the horn
-lots of other uglier things to “get out” the notes while playing live in front of thousands of Jazz Big Band fans. Many bad habits happened.
Caruso also observed how analytical and engineer minded trumpet players can be, e.g., always looking for equipment changes or magic bullet technical trumpet methods.

The Caruso method and particularly the 6 notes and intervals do several things to countervail unnecessary movement (manipulation) and simplify over engineered practice sessions.

1. Limiting movement. Taking the horn off the lips and re- positioning it adds movements in of itself. By keeping it on the lips and not moving anything except a little flip of the tongue during the 6 notes, some manipulation of the embouchure is limited.

2. Organizing what you do. Basically, for Mr. Caruso, simple was better. For me it was like going back to 5th grade band. I relearned how to go from one note to another note in an organized uncomplicated way.

3. If you are going to do the twist, then twist with a beat! Beating the foot, mentally subdividing to 16th notes and making your move in a very organized way teaches the brain to behave the way you want it to behave. Mistakes start going away and so does some of the manipulation.

4. Side effects. The side effects of keeping the mouthpiece on the lips and limiting embouchure movement is the “burn” . The calisthenic effect may actually be reduced range at first but a solid range, increased endurance and even sound.

Maybe some folk do not feel the magic in the 6 notes. I believe. In fact, I stopped playing in April this year to play/work out doors and to stop playing on a loose front tooth. Winter is coming and the tooth was repaired. The 6 notes as a warm-up will re-establish my lost embouchure. In a few weeks with Caruso and my Caruso inspired stuff I will see re-established range, sound and strength. Maybe Caruso for me is more of a miracle than magic!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays and best of luck with your trumpet playing.

Gordon Stump
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KRELL1960
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject: Re: Chuck Reply with quote

mcgovnor wrote:
Chuck would play great no matter what he did.


did chuck ever actually study with Caruso, or was it vicariously through his brother who did study with caruso?

regards

tom
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mcgovnor
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:23 am    Post subject: I Reply with quote

I would be lying if I gave you a definite answer. But everybody studied with Carmine.
Sitting in his little room, all day, often, guys walked through all day. Mostly, sounded horrible there.
Never the less, when I heard Chuck with Buddy, he sounded like he sounds now, basically.
Movin air like a mother, great time, and a sparkle, even, command in the sound on every note.
Smart and talented.
In this way, like Alan Rubin.
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TrpPro
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
Let’s Review!

Mr. Caruso created his method partly by observing how many trumpet players do various things to manipulate their embouchure to change pitches. He got a reputation as a clinician who could "fix" professional trumpet players with problems. So the walking wounded from the many road bands would line up at his door, (literally).

Some would:
- twist the horn to stretch the vibrating surface
- increase pressure on crooked teeth to allow the lips to slide from a high spot to a lower spot thus stretching the vibrating surface
-roll in and lower the angle of the horn
-jut out the jaw to raise the angle of the horn
-lots of other uglier things to “get out” the notes while playing live in front of thousands of Jazz Big Band fans. Many bad habits happened.
Caruso also observed how analytical and engineer minded trumpet players can be, e.g., always looking for equipment changes or magic bullet technical trumpet methods.

The Caruso method and particularly the 6 notes and intervals do several things to countervail unnecessary movement (manipulation) and simplify over engineered practice sessions.

1. Limiting movement. Taking the horn off the lips and re- positioning it adds movements in of itself. By keeping it on the lips and not moving anything except a little flip of the tongue during the 6 notes, some manipulation of the embouchure is limited.

2. Organizing what you do. Basically, for Mr. Caruso, simple was better. For me it was like going back to 5th grade band. I relearned how to go from one note to another note in an organized uncomplicated way.

3. If you are going to do the twist, then twist with a beat! Beating the foot, mentally subdividing to 16th notes and making your move in a very organized way teaches the brain to behave the way you want it to behave. Mistakes start going away and so does some of the manipulation.

4. Side effects. The side effects of keeping the mouthpiece on the lips and limiting embouchure movement is the “burn” . The calisthenic effect may actually be reduced range at first but a solid range, increased endurance and even sound.

Maybe some folk do not feel the magic in the 6 notes. I believe. In fact, I stopped playing in April this year to play/work out doors and to stop playing on a loose front tooth. Winter is coming and the tooth was repaired. The 6 notes as a warm-up will re-establish my lost embouchure. In a few weeks with Caruso and my Caruso inspired stuff I will see re-established range, sound and strength. Maybe Caruso for me is more of a miracle than magic!

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays and best of luck with your trumpet playing.

Gordon Stump

Well said!

And don't forget another very common habit you see all the time as players ascend: the sliding of the mouthpiece to one side or the other, often with a twist added, usually clockwise. It was hilarious when CC described it as trying to keep the "meat" together.
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KRELL1960
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: I Reply with quote

mcgovnor wrote:
I would be lying if I gave you a definite answer. But everybody studied with Carmine.
Sitting in his little room, all day, often, guys walked through all day. Mostly, sounded horrible there.
Never the less, when I heard Chuck with Buddy, he sounded like he sounds now, basically.
Movin air like a mother, great time, and a sparkle, even, command in the sound on every note.
Smart and talented.
In this way, like Alan Rubin.


Alan Rubin was one of the greats, BTW, you were in buddy's band after chuck was long gone, correct?

regards,

tom
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gbshelbymi
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't played much at all since March, between "day gig" and getting a house together to sell. When I finally get relocated in April I'm going to be all over Mr. Stump's Caruso-inspired "Power Legit Trumpet Studies". They help me immensely in college, with my range and endurance, and I know they'll get me back in shape quickly this spring too.

Thanks, Gordon!
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gstump
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you will do well Greg. If one buys into the principles and follows the rules, Caruso type stuff is like taking vitimans. No need to think about them and where they go.
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jhatpro
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is Caruso intended the six note excercise as a way to help trumpeters learn to play with minimal movement of their embouchure. He supposedly got the idea after visiting a factory where he saw a stamping machine rhythmically punching out precisely shaped metal parts.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My understanding is Caruso intended the six note excercise as a way to help trumpeters learn to play with minimal movement of their embouchure. He supposedly got the idea after visiting a factory where he saw a stamping machine rhythmically punching out precisely shaped metal parts.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhatpro wrote:
My understanding is Caruso intended the six note excercise as a way to help trumpeters learn to play with minimal movement of their embouchure. He supposedly got the idea after visiting a factory where he saw a stamping machine rhythmically punching out precisely shaped metal parts.

I am not saying you are wrong, but considering his background leading up to this system, it seems curious that he wouldn't have come to that conclusion based on watching some piece of machinery once.
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pepperdean
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At my first lesson, Carmine enumerated what he called the seven moving parts required to play. He then explained that his methods were designed "balance" or "time"(synchronize) those moving parts for each musical/physical demand. The MSN, intervals, <>, and >< were designed to systematically make these demands on the embouchure. The calisthenic practice of these creates a reflexive, programmed response into the autonomic nervous system.

Only much later, with the practice of pedal tones and clarinet etudes was there any discussion of minimizing movement.

Alan
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gstump
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperdean wrote:
At my first lesson, Carmine enumerated what he called the seven moving parts required to play. He then explained that his methods were designed "balance" or "time"(synchronize) those moving parts for each musical/physical demand. The MSN, intervals, <>, and >< were designed to systematically make these demands on the embouchure. The calisthenic practice of these creates a reflexive, programmed response into the autonomic nervous system.

Only much later, with the practice of pedal tones and clarinet etudes was there any discussion of minimizing movement.

Alan


I agree. Although, when explaining his 6 notes, Carmine did say that keeping the mouthpiece on the lips and not moving anything during the rests did eliminate unnecessary movement.

Even though the primary goal of this method is to organize whatever movement or manipulation takes place, I believe this method seems to lead toward less manipulation by virtue of the settings, aka the blow without taking the mouthpiece off the lips.

I agree my post put too much emphasis on limiting manipulation as a cause as opposed to organizing manipulation.

Also, intellectualizing Caruso makes my head hurt.

Cheers,

Gordon Stump
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pepperdean
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gordon, I thought your post was excellent. I didn't read it as too much emphasis on manipulation. Maybe that's because I'm familiar with the system.

Right, from a player's standpoint, too much intellectualizing. Just do the work. For those of us who hope to successful as prescriptive teachers, we do have to think a little

Merry Christmas.

Alan
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