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Parduba mouthpiece for daily playing?



 
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baboo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 2:53 am    Post subject: Parduba mouthpiece for daily playing? Reply with quote

Hi everyone!
I have a Parduba double cup number 5 mouthpiece that I really enjoy playing. I get a good sound and endurance on it and it plays easy.
The one I use for most practice is a Bach 5C.

I'm wondering if the Parduba is a good enough moutpiece for developing chops and daily playing. Is it considered a shallow piece?? I don't want it as a "cheater" mouthpiece or anything, mostly I just like the sound more than the Bach (which is a little too dark and orchestral). Thoughts?
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They were good enough for Harry James.

There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of the newer Pardubas seem to have rims that are way too sharp for me. I have an old parduba 3 mouthpiece that I like. Jim New makes a great repro and the rim isn't so sharp.

Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well. They don't allow much room for error like a piece with a lot of cup volume and a sharp bite on the rim might.

I believe the term 'cheater' developed because if you are playing incorrrectly/inefficiently a shallow mouthpiece with a more cushion style rim CAN let you get out a few higher notes with some excessive pressure or embochure manipulation. But not really high notes by today's standards. Also you will probably be getting a shrill, thin, nasal-y sound in the lower registers if playing on these pieces incorrectly and I think this is where the term 'cheater' comes from. Sacrificing the sound in the lower register to obtain a few relatively higher notes.

If any mouthpiece could be considered a 'cheater' I would say it would be one that is really big and deep - if you rely on that mouthpiece to get a good sound, instead of correct embouchure development!

A Parduba 5 I would consider to be a nice 'middle of the road' mouthpiece if the rim isn't too sharp. A little more orientated towards the commercial and solo trumpet arena. Fred Mills of the Canadian Brass was said to have used a Parduba pretty often.

Mouthpieces I would prefer over the Parduba 5:
Warburton 5ESV/H backbore.
If you could get really lucky - an old Bill Ratzenberger jet-tone 2C. The old jet-tones are still some of the best mouthpieces ever made IMO. Best. Lex
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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Last edited by ljazztrm on Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 6:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. - Although I did just say all that about 'cheater' mouthpieces, I just made some inquires about Mike Sailors and I heard he DOES play a cheater mouthpiece! No one will hire him because he cheats when he plays.

Quote:
There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored.


See, he can't even reply to my comment now!

Chaaaaa!! M.C. 2 U M.S.
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some truth there!
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derekthor
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Parduba mouthpiece for daily playing? Reply with quote

baboo wrote:

I have a Parduba double cup number 5 mouthpiece that I really enjoy playing. I get a good sound and endurance on it and it plays easy.


I think you answered your own question.
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Brad361
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
.....
There's no such thing as a cheater mouthpiece. Anyone using that term should be ignored.


THIS.

Hey, if there was a mpce that let me "cheat" by giving me abilities that I don't have, I would probably buy two.
That being said though, generally speaking I think developing students should stay with a "middle of the road" piece, as long as it's appropriate to the individual. "Lead", "commercial", etc. pieces are fine for a mature player in the right genres, maybe not so much for a student.

Brad
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Tony Scodwell
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 12:55 pm    Post subject: Pardubas Reply with quote

Harry James indeed sounded wonderful on his Parduba 5* and didn't seem to have any problems in the low register either. I must say that it works very well combined with the DB Kings that he played after the Selmer years (which were .468). I have a '65 vintage balanced King from him and one of his early Parduba pieces and the combination is lovely. Big sound, great rim feel and doesn't seem too shallow for what I usually play on (SV cup). For what it's worth speaking of "cheater" mouthpieces, when I was with Severinsen, two mouthpieces always went on the stand with him. One was his current 5C made by the maker at the time he was trying and the other was a "screamer" made by Bob Reeves which Doc kept on the stand and would switch to when some high stuff was coming up without anybody in the audience seeing the switch. Bob told me it was similar to a 5E and that was the only mouthpiece Doc never left home without.
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baboo
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2015 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for all the replies, I really appreciate it!

I'm still pretty much a beginner/intermediate player so I don't want to rush into anything too fast. The Bach 5C is a very good mpc for chops and general development, I just feel I like the sound on the parduba better. I guess I'll stick with the parduba for a while and see how it works.

It still feels like a middle of the road mouthpiece on the chops, probably thanks to the double cup design.
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trumpetplanet
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:

Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well.


That's the gold right there. Now shhhh it's a secret!

But maybe you should go tell the guy in the other thread who is looking for a radical new idea.
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kehaulani
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Joined: 23 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
A lot of the newer Pardubas seem to have rims that are way too sharp for me. I have an old parduba 3 mouthpiece that I like. Jim New makes a great repro and the rim isn't so sharp.

Ironically the mouthpieces that are usually referred to as 'cheaters' are one that take the most efficiency and correct embouchure development to sound good on and play well. They don't allow much room for error like a piece with a lot of cup volume and a sharp bite on the rim might.

I believe the term 'cheater' developed because if you are playing incorrrectly/inefficiently a shallow mouthpiece with a more cushion style rim CAN let you get out a few higher notes with some excessive pressure or embochure manipulation. But not really high notes by today's standards. Also you will probably be getting a shrill, thin, nasal-y sound in the lower registers if playing on these pieces incorrectly and I think this is where the term 'cheater' comes from. Sacrificing the sound in the lower register to obtain a few relatively higher notes.

If any mouthpiece could be considered a 'cheater' I would say it would be one that is really big and deep - if you rely on that mouthpiece to get a good sound, instead of correct embouchure development!

A Parduba 5 I would consider to be a nice 'middle of the road' mouthpiece if the rim isn't too sharp. A little more orientated towards the commercial and solo trumpet arena. Fred Mills of the Canadian Brass was said to have used a Parduba pretty often.

Mouthpieces I would prefer over the Parduba 5:
Warburton 5ESV/H backbore.
If you could get really lucky - an old Bill Ratzenberger jet-tone 2C. The old jet-tones are still some of the best mouthpieces ever made IMO. Best. Lex


Well, back in day a number of players used "cheater" mouthpieces and sounded pretty darn good on them. I was hanging out with Ray Triscari in the 60s and his mouthpieces were very small. He gave me one and I tried to use it but it was so small, I couldn't even play it, and I was playing a Purviance 4*D4 at the time, which is hardly a large mouthpiece.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you playing a new Parduba or vintage? They've changed a lot over the years. The newer ones have more mass to them.

Tom
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VetPsychWars wrote:
Are you playing a new Parduba or vintage? They've changed a lot over the years. The newer ones have more mass to them.

Tom


And more rounded rims. The 5 in particular seems radically different.
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deejaymushone
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject: Re: cheater mouthpieces Reply with quote

1st: R.I.P. Lex - what a kind, warm person, & a great player - his reply above is really on the $.

Ok - I’m really late to the party (!) - some of these replies above are 17 years old now lol ! But hey - these are timeless topics that players continue to be interested in & disagree about......

That being said - Lex is *really*speaking the truth above. For proof, just visit the abel.hive player/combination website........a majority of the players from the 1st 1/2 of the 20th century, ie: the golden age of the Bb trumpet, are using shallow mouthpiece, many with wide rims (by today’s standards). Players like Fats Navarro, Bunny Berrigan, Ray Anthony, Harry James, etc etc on and on all had HUGE fat, buttery sounds on what would now be considered to be very small mouthpieces. To say that all of these players are “cheating” is ridiculous (!). To say that every one of them is a “freak” defies logic & reason.

You can all see where this is going lol.........!

Respectfully,

Jeremy Mush1
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