Quintet: Mellophone or F. Horn?

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1793

If you're planning on performing in public with that quintet, and if you can handle the technical demands the closer-spaced harmonics cause, I'd agree wholeheartedly with James Becker. My granddaughter's case was one of needing to introduce the literature to the students, strictly for classroom use, so substitutions were acceptable. With the limited number in the class, they were inevitable. The tweaked mello came a lot closer to sounding like a proper horn than I'd expected, but it's not the best choice if anyone else can hear you playing it. It's sort of like trying to make that undersized Chinese Wagnertuba sound like a real one - OK for tosser level, not for more than private enjoyment.

The good part is that there are a lot of very serviceable used horns out there at reasonable prices. New ones don't seem to come that way if they're worth having.
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Craig Swartz · Posted: Sat Dec 26, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject:

Hugh Anderson · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Sep 2011 Posts: 398

You don't have to get the marching version. Ebs are great.

RandyTX · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:11 pm Post subject:

A quality tenor horn (Eb) like used in a brass band would be another good option. Arguably easier to blend in to a small ensemble than a french horn, because the bell isn't pointed in the opposite direction, although it points up like a euph or tuba.
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Richard III · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:35 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the advice. Rentals for double horns were either not available or so expensive, it didn't make sense. I decided to take the plunge and bought a slightly used double horn off Ebay. They say that the secret to keeping your mind young is to learn new things. I'll certainly be expanding my horizons. There certainly are more mouthpiece options available now than there were 35 years ago. Fun times ahead.

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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

Craig Swartz · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:07 pm Post subject:

Good for you! Enjoy. All you dudes who think a tenor in Eb/F is so great, I know where you can pick up a Mirophone (shaped like a fetal position) rotary pretty reasonably. (Hint, hint, but won't hold my breath)

stumac · Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject:

Congratulations Richard, you have done the right thing, enjoy.

When I joined the community orchestra in 1990 to play Fr horn, the section was a trumpet player playing an Eb tenor horn, it did not blend with anything and the intonation was terrible. When we got a couple more horns I moved to trumpet to get away from it, the other horns complained and I convinced him eventually to change places, I dont think he ever realized the reason.

Regards, Stuart.

James Becker · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:55 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Mon Dec 28, 2015 10:32 am Post subject:

It took me a few weeks to get my French Horn chops back after not playing one for 30 years. I really enjoyed it. In my case I just borrowed an old Conn 8D (I think) from a local school. What I really liked was a new Yamaha I tried at a local music shop. SO much easier to play!

Yeah, French horns are expensive. If you can't buy/rent a French horn I'd either recruit a trombone or try it on Flugelhorn.
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Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

Richard III · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:17 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:28 am Post subject:

Yeah, it came as a shock to me too that French horn mouthpiece inner diameters are typically larger than those on trumpet. I didn't find the larger ID to be any sort of problem since the blow of the F Horn is so very different. In fact, I was playing as high, with little strain, as much more experienced horn players. And endurance was never an issue, which has never been the case with my trumpet playing.

I think I went with a Faxx "Farkas MC" which was cheap and worked out just fine. And FWIW my Bb piece at the time was a Bach 3C. I've not tried the Paxman.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

bike&ed · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Dec 2004 Posts: 1837

When did this larger diameter trend happen with horn mouthpieces? I've never seen one that was as wide as a trumpet mouthpiece, but it's been about 6 years or more since I've looked closely at (or played on) a (French) horn.

cheiden · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:19 am Post subject:

I'm not sure it's ever been different regarding ID. In my case it was just a problem with perception. The thin rim has always been the case though I've seen a few recently that were really really thin.

I'd advise would-be doublers not to hang up on the larger ID, thin rim French Horn mouthpiece. The instrument blows entirely differently and these mouthpieces work. And tempting as it is, any attempt to make it more trumpet-like is really not necessary, and likely to cause problems.
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart

JeffTheHornGuy · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:47 am Post subject:

As a horn doubler, I would go with a conn 6D or 8D. They are both easy enough to go back and forth, but I think the intermediate level 6D has a more trumpet-like blow.
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Richard III · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 1:17 pm Post subject:

After going over much information on this site:

http://hornmatters.com/

I went with a Holton H-378G. It is an intermediate level horn. I read that the Conns had quite the uneven quality control.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

James Becker · Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject:

razeontherock · Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:15 pm Post subject:

Crazy Finn · Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:21 pm Post subject:

James Becker · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:56 am Post subject:

Regarding the quality of Conn Horns, there was an uptick in quality when production moved from Abeline, TX to Eastlake, OH. As with many mergers some components were blended.

For example rotor casings were changed to deep drawn King rotor casings and the eventual elimination of cast braces for bell and mouthpipe to stamped King style braces.

From our perspective the quality of components is very high, however the mounting and final assembly could stand a bit more attention. For this reason we offer our Horn prep service which addresses these issues. Similar to our trumpet blueprinting service, we take any off the shelf horn and thoroughly inspect, correct deviations and finely adjust mechanisms to bring it to the highest level.

So if you would like to purchase a new Horn with our Osmun prep or have an existing Horn you'd like prepped we're available to service your instrument.

I Hope this is helpful.

Happy New Year everyone!
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James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com

Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US

Richard III · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: