Mark Gould on Showmanship and Nerves

Monster Oil

https://youtu.be/XHcNp_qDzNU

There is an f-bomb in this one.

You guys agree about his thoughts on beta blockers?
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Irving · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Feb 2003 Posts: 1887

I don't agree with Mr. Gould. I view having to take medication (or, drugs, as Mr. Gould mentioned) as being a choice that is better than having to submit yourself to a lot of stress, which I believe is even worse for your body and mind, than having to take beta blockers. If the beta blockers relieve you of undue stress, and enable you to perform on a higher level, without having to suffer through racing heart beat, sky high blood pressure, dry mouth, unfocused mind to name a few symptoms of the fight or flight syndrome, then, I would say use them under a Dr.'s supervision. If one suffers these problems, but can manage to overcome them, then by all means do without them. Beta blockers don't affect your mind, since they are not tranquilizers, or psychotropic drugs, so you can still be nervous, but your body won't react accordingly.

roccotrumpetsiffredi · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Jul 2015 Posts: 169

I agree with Mr. Gould, beta blockers are no good.

What happened to mentally trying to overcome anything?

I am surprised and very saddened to hear beta blocker use is so prevalent, I always thought practice and confidence in ones playing would be enough to overcome nerves.

BFlinch83 · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:14 pm Post subject:

Disagree. The irony is too much to take...

Seymor B Fudd · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject:

tim_wolf · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:35 pm Post subject:

trumpet56 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 16 Jun 2010 Posts: 623

George Coble · Veteran Member Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 145

Mark Gould is a world renown artist who has proved his mettle as a performer over many years. As a pedagogue, he has likewise influenced proteges who are today’s stars performing in world class orchestras. Mark’s opinions concerning beta blockers mirror those of Adolph Herseth’s and are, for all practical purposes, gospel.

My experience with beta blockers occurred very late in my 40 year career. In 2003, I was greeted with a most disturbing and uncontrollable vibrato during a morning pre-rehearsal warm-up. I attributed this to my usual morning dose of caffeinated coffee and it, fortunately, soon went away. In the following years this uncontrollable shaking in my lips came back every once in a while and I consulted with a renown neurologist. He correctly analyzed my condition as focal task-specific embouchure dystonia. The medications that were recommended were Mysoline, Methazolamide, and, later on, Propranolol, the “famous” beta blocker most musicians have heard about. Each and all of these drugs, in time, enabled me to extend my musical career for another few years. The overall lesson to be understood is that the human body adapts to any new influences, including drugs, and tends to require more and higher dosages in order to get the desired results. As such, the downsides of these drugs eventually altered my quality of life so substantially that I had to finally (and abruptly) retire in 2009 from performing on the trumpet in order to save my life from the multitudinous side affects I experienced.

Perhaps the most insidious of all these most potent drugs was the seemingly benign Propranolol. I was warned to never take more than a certain dosage of Propranolol in a single day. However, in the last 5 months of my career as a performer I was taking severe overdoses of this drug in order to thwart the constant shakings of my lips while performing. Even while taking Proparnolol I still experienced the so-called performance nerves that had not only accompanied my musical life for decades but also provided my music making with the spirit and personality that had become my longtime modus operandai. The effects of Propranolol use caused me very disturbing interrupted sleep patterns, a severe disconnect with daily thought processes, and particular difficulty with focusing during conversations and music making.

I would ask that one consider the downsides of taking non-necessary drugs that are meant for other specific medical purposes.

Good luck

George Coble

tim_wolf · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject:

Paladin53 · Regular Member Joined: 27 Sep 2015 Posts: 34

One of the numerous potential side effects of Beta Blockers is Peyronie's disease. So for about half the population things could take a turn for the worse.
Just saying.

Monster Oil · Posted: Tue Dec 29, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject:

Seymor B Fudd

BFlinch83 · Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:25 am Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-m20Ao2rb4

Start at 25:00. Seems to have worked for him and he's a pretty darn good player.

In the modern world of professional orchestra playing perfection is everything. In order to advance at auditions one must play perfectly, and musical message is often of secondary importance, at least in advancing from the first round. Why would you not take 20 mg of beta blocker in order to alleviate a few symptoms?

Musicians have been self medicating for years, whether with prescriptions, alcohol, or other substances. How is taking a beta blocker worse than this?

Seymor B Fudd · Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:08 am Post subject:

Daniel Barenboim · Veteran Member Joined: 20 May 2011 Posts: 247

trptdoc · Veteran Member Joined: 01 May 2003 Posts: 246

Better check with your doc before trying propranolol . It can potentiate heart rythm abnormalities that can be fatal--like complete heart block . That said,most healthy hearts tolerate 20mg without problem. It will usually slow a normal heart rate into the 50 beats/min area .

tim_wolf · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 6:49 am Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:13 am Post subject:

I'd caution against drawing conclusions based on individual experiences and assumptions about individual doctor's practices. The medical warnings, I trust, are based on statistics and they wouldn't provide the warning unless some folks have problems
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ML52K · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 9:49 am Post subject:

I caution people to not get too comfortable with the feeling that beta blockers aren't really all that dangerous.

As an optometrist dealing with topical ophthalmic preparations for glaucoma control, this class of topical drug has fallen from first line treatment because safer drugs have been developed. Even though topical eye preparations have relatively small amounts of the drug

We have been reminded on multiple occasions throughout our training and continuing education that beta blockers are, in fact, responsible for loss of human lives.

This is not a condemnation. I believe there may be a place for them in performance, but must be taken in proper dosages under medical supervision.

John Mohan · Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:19 pm Post subject:

I'll share my beta blocker story. West Side Story was about to open for its Fall and Winter of 2002/2003 run in Basel, Switzerland. It was a pretty intense show to put together in about just one week of rehearsal and prep time. My music director (who was responsible for getting me the job, as well as Evita earlier and Grease later), mistook my rather "energetic" (some would say "hyperactive") personality for nervousness and bugged me to try one of her beta blockers for one of the final dress rehearsal run throughs. To appease her and perhaps also to satisfy my own curiosity I relented and took one before the run through. It was a bad experience. I couldn't focus and made mistakes I know I never would have made had I not taken that pill - and as I made the mistakes, I didn't care that I made them. It was fortunate it wasn't an actual show but just one of the final run throughs.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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