Jazz Trumpet/Piano Playing

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

I read a post a few days ago where individuals mentioned that they wish they had learned to play piano when they first started to study the trumpet. My goal is to be able to improv so I know piano playing will help me - but as a new player my focus is (and should be) trumpet practice.

What specifics of playing piano would one focus on? Playing chord changes? I have a keyboard that I could use for this but like I said, a majority of my time is spent on the trumpet. I would like to know if there is anyone out there who can play piano and how it helps their trumpet playing.

Thanks in advance.

Ronnie · Regular Member Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 87

Su'p KC,

That's a good one. When I first started my lessons (year ago) I found it interesting that some of my lessons would be really piano focused.

Initially (on piano days as he calls them), John would play scales on the piano in different keys and then tell me what key he was playing in on the piano ans ask me to duplicate them.

Now we do mostly chord work on those days. It's pretty funny because I really have no idea how to improvise, bu he'll say a chord then play it and let me blow out some notes within that chord. I've found that when I'm not on it enough to improvise, I can at least play an arpeggio around the chord that he plays.

I know we haven't gotten into any advances stuff yet, but it can be kind of fun.

Also, we do ear training on those days, which I absolutley hate. But, I've found that when I'm transcribing and transposing into different keys it helps out a lot.

Right now, we're working on an ellington song with som augmented chords (i think that's right) in them. Playing around those chords ir really trippy. I doesnt even sound right sometimes.

He has yet to tell me to sit down at the piano and play yet though. GO figure

Take care, man.

Ronnie

Have you discovered any good tunes lately?

[ This Message was edited by: Ronnie on 2002-02-26 14:14 ]

Cozy · Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2002 11:56 am Post subject:

In an effort to improv, uh, improve on ivory, I put a kybd right out in the middle of the living room, and I'm leaving it there until the interior decorator balks. Also, got out a cute li'l kybd and put it by the recliner. Now, I'm forced to think piano. Works.
When the chops need a break or late at night, I can play, add the headphones for gracious silence to others, and "see" the scales, the licks, the melody. Something about seeing the distance to the flat 5th et al. helps.
My left hand is still out on protest, but my r. hand and I are happy.

Cozy
http://www.cozychops.com

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

Ronnie · Regular Member Joined: 08 Nov 2001 Posts: 87

KC,

My working range on is unlimited, I can play a triple hi g! Well, on the piano

On my horn I can play up to a high c above the staff (just normal range), I've found that chromatic scales (starting on c in the staff) really gave me a workout and in a few week I was trainwrecking high c's without much pressure. After a while that started opening up. I also had to learn to think outside of the horn - not looking at/focusing on my fingering, but more toward the bell.

Have you gotten Clifford Brown's transcribed solo book yet. I don't even know where to begin with that thing. Also, Jazz Improv Magazine is really good for working with the piano and the Bb horn.

I'm really trying to perfect "Summertime" and "Lady of the Lavender Mist" right now. It's a blast.

I think we're still progressing around the same rate. That is until I see you run up on the stage at BET ON Jazz and steal a solo. Then I'll break my horn over my knee and buy one of your CD's

Later

Ronnie

[ This Message was edited by: Ronnie on 2002-02-26 16:47 ]

PH · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2002 6:42 pm Post subject:

Just work on playing changes at first. Eventually you can start stumbling through tunes in a fake book and sounding like you're wearing mittens while you play along with Aebersold records. For now I'd say you should learn to play ii- V7 I cadences in all the major and minor keys and dominant 7th chords around the key cycle.

I work on the keyboard stuff when I need to rest my chops. A minute here and there scattered through out your trumpet practice can accomplish a whole lot over time.

Phil DeGreg's book, "Jazz Keyboard Skills" is great for this. It is written for non-pianists and makes a pretty decent self-tutor. It is published by Aebersold.

jhaysom · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 10:22 am Post subject:

Using a keyboard to learn to instantly recognize the notes implied by a chord symbol is an extremely useful exercise for jazz players on any instrument. If you're improvising and you see a Dm7b5 coming up, you don't want to play an A natural (at least not in most contexts). Learning to play these chords on a keyboard is the best way I know to learn this. Learning to play the chords with your left hand and experimenting with melody lines to go with them with the right hand is also very useful.

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

One of my goals for the new year is to learn basic piano. I feel it will help me with improvisation as well as music theory.

PH (or anyone else familiar with it) - is this the book you were talking about?

http://www.jazzbooks.com/scripts/search.asp?detail=1&item=133

I may not get started until May as I will have more free time. Than again, I like PH's suggestion of playing during my rest periods. That will keep my focus on music and not my brand new X-Box (Christmas present).

If anyone is curious about my 2003 goals take a look at my site. Always anxious to get feedback or suggestions. Happy New Year everyone!

_________________
-Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzician.org

[ This Message was edited by: Xenoman on 2003-01-02 13:02 ]

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

I also have my keyboard right next to me when I practice trumpet, so I can practice in the one or two minute rests when my chops need a break. I guess this is pretty popular! But I try to get in a little keyboard-only practice later in the day. (It's convenient right before bed because I can use my headphones and not disturb my sleeping family.)

The book you mentioned...when you say it's written for non-keyboard players, do you mean like people with previous musical experience? If so, I would really like to get my hands on that book. Sometimes it gets frustrating when I can read rhythms and notes, but I can't apply them. If the book is geared towards this type of dilemma, it is the first of its kind (that I've heard of).

mm

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

Hey MM!

Your thread about transposition is what made me pull up this old post. I'm not entirely sure what they mean in reference to "musicial experience" but I agree - if it does, that would be great. Hopefully PH has some info for us.

_________________
-Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzician.org

[ This Message was edited by: Xenoman on 2003-01-02 14:39 ]

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Thanks for digging this out Eric!

If anybody has experience with this book (or another one like it) I'd really appreciate comments.

BTW, Eric, your site is constructed very nicely...are you a web designer?

mm

Xenoman · Heavyweight Member Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 1209

Yep. Web development by day... trumpet jazz master in training by night...

The site is really low maintenance which is why I can keep it updated so easily. Everything is pretty much database driven. I make an entry into table and the content pops up automatically. I did the static HTML page thing for a while but that was a pain in the butt to update. Took too much time away from practicing!

Just to keep things on topic, MM and I are looking for info on the book:

"Jazz Keyboard Harmony" by Phil DeGreg - Book/CD set

_________________
-Eric M. Brewington
http://www.jazzician.org

[ This Message was edited by: Xenoman on 2003-01-02 15:47 ]

PH · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:51 am Post subject:

Yep, Eric. That's the one.

Phil wrote for use by non-pianist music majors (mostly jazz horn players with no piano skills) in his university jazz piano class. It would probably be tough to work with if you couldn't read music or couldn't find an F# on the piano, but other than that you're good to go. I have found that it makes a great self-tutor. Don't be afriad to go slow. Every little bit helps.

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

I found that book on several sites with varying prices...from $20 to $25.

I have basically only ordered music fromt eh Aebersold site and Amazon, so I was wondering: do you go with price or reliability when ordering music?

thanks,

mm

trumpetdiva1 · Posted: Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:38 pm Post subject:

Pat, thanks for your recommendation of this book. I had just ordered it from the Aebersold Web site. I thought that I would order it from there because I decided to order other Aebersold products. I think that this book will do me some good.

I have been working on my piano skills, but could always use more work. I am also working on trying to visualize the keyboard as I am playing trumpet. Sometimes, I can and other times I cannot seem to do it. But, for now I can see the notes on sheet music in my head. I guess that there are different levels or types of visualization. How does everyone else visualize it (if you do)?

[ This Message was edited by: trumpetdiva1 on 2003-01-03 22:39 ]

musicmonkey · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jan 2002 Posts: 344

Hmm, interesting idea. Generally when I'm playing I don't visualize the notes on a keyboard, but rather I try to hear the notes in my head. I haven't really thought about trying to see them as well. As for when I'm improvising, I try to just think of the scale I'm using, for example 'F Dorian.' I find it's better not to clutter my brain too much when improving so I can focus on trying to get the pitches I hear in my head to come out the bell of my trumpet.

mm