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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Losers weepers finders keepers??? Reply with quote

Noticed lately that my former pedal C is gone; with a lot of fiddling lips like an anteater I just sometimes might get it out again. My pro-teacher (who saved my musical life) maintains this pedal C is the basis! And did warn me!
But, on the other hand my double pedal C step by step comes closer to that bass trombone. Lipclamping up and down G/F#/F - C/H/B). High C lurking around.
And: I practice a lot (just BE since a week or so) range up to D, but somehow next step seems unreachable at the moment. In younger days Eb was the playable limit. With an unbalanced embouchure most likely, "lipconditions" now and then.
Any thoughts? Got somewhat alarmed by the pro.
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Cornets:
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Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
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King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) Stork VM6
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The inference here, intended or not, is that doing BE exercises somehow caused you to lose your grip for pedal C. I've never heard of such a thing, and I've worked with a lot of players.

Pedal C can be useful, but it is far from "the basis." And there are several ways to hit a pedal C. Most of them are done with an incorrect lip position., and yield zero development. I do not cover this in the book, as pedal C is not part of BE.

Jeff
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 732
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
The inference here, intended or not, is that doing BE exercises somehow caused you to lose your grip for pedal C. I've never heard of such a thing, and I've worked with a lot of players.

Pedal C can be useful, but it is far from "the basis." And there are several ways to hit a pedal C. Most of them are done with an incorrect lip position., and yield zero development. I do not cover this in the book, as pedal C is not part of BE.

Jeff


Thanks for calming me.! The "pro" seemed somewhat sceptical to BE per se, and as he helped me, no rather saved me, skillfully pinpointing what I did or did not, when I was on the verge of giving it all up, I got somewhat alarmed but I do find it helping me. The pedal C was also something that came with my use of the Stamp approach (which he advocates). Now that I have had some more days thinking and testing out I can think that this pedal C disappears if I try to produce a focused double pedal C; if I start out in the morning just blowing the pedal C it does come out.
But of course you are right; that double C does something with my lips
pedal C never did, or even anticipated. Rejuvenating sort of.
You know, I have been playing by my own since the beginning, some 50 years later taking lessons that do wonder, and then BE on top. Old habits.... .Could I even be the oldest one beginning with BE??
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Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Denis Wick Ultra 7C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) Stork VM6
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973)/Stork VMS6
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seymor B Fudd wrote:
trumpetteacher1 wrote:
The inference here, intended or not, is that doing BE exercises somehow caused you to lose your grip for pedal C. I've never heard of such a thing, and I've worked with a lot of players.

Pedal C can be useful, but it is far from "the basis." And there are several ways to hit a pedal C. Most of them are done with an incorrect lip position., and yield zero development. I do not cover this in the book, as pedal C is not part of BE.

Jeff


Thanks for calming me.............................!You know, I have been playing by my own since the beginning, some 50 years later taking lessons that do wonder, and then BE on top. Old habits.... .Could I even be the oldest one beginning with BE??



I must humbly correct myself and please excuse me for dragging you to the keyboard! Today, in the warming-up I do before going to rehearsal I played the short Stamp and out comes a better pedal C then ever....in tune, no contortion of face at all, just straight out
Patience Seymor patience...
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Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Denis Wick Ultra 7C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) Stork VM6
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973)/Stork VMS6
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trumpetteacher1
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 13, 2016 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know your age, but I know players who started BE in their 80's. So you are probably not the oldest.

I am glad that your pedal C is now working better, Just to be clear, I have not noticed the BE exercises either helping or hindering the the ability to hit a pedal C. Pedal C is like a specific skill set. I used to think it was very important to overall playing, but I learned otherwise. It can be useful, but it is not crucial.

But if it makes your teacher feel better, go for it!

Jeff
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 732
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2016 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumpetteacher1 wrote:
I don't know your age, but I know players who started BE in their 80's. So you are probably not the oldest.

I am glad that your pedal C is now working better, Just to be clear, I have not noticed the BE exercises either helping or hindering the the ability to hit a pedal C. Pedal C is like a specific skill set. I used to think it was very important to overall playing, but I learned otherwise. It can be useful, but it is not crucial.

But if it makes your teacher feel better, go for it!

Jeff


Just recently 73. When I meet him next time I will present a sublime pedal C, but at all other times the double C and its clarity is my goal!
Interesting with these pedal tones anyway; I have met/do meet many fellowes who are quite unable to produce sounds like these - and - do not see the value of them. Personally I never produced such a sound prior to the Stamp exercices. I was recommended trying James Stamp in 94, when I brought home a Bach Strad cornet from the (your..)States,
- Washington, Chuck Levins´) I tested every cornet they had and got stuck with the Bach ´cause of its tonal quality. But I could not fill it....Stamp or not. Tested such a one recently, big sound, but I prefer my Getzen Custom series.
Now, as I have sometimes conveyed here, truly amazed of the stability/stamina/tonal quality I seem to produce, after 6 weeks of BE....
And I found that the BE excercises suffice more than well as the basis for my playing. Initially I was worried they would not suffice. Weird that so relatively short practice could give these results; Probably I have wasted a lot of time on not developing excercises, with bad chops and unbalanced embouchure. Or the reverse, not having the BE making most excercises futile and wasted.
Last RI correction came after reading toplip not sucked in between teeths.... still leaking airstream down on chin (below mpc/lips) though; OK or not????
ps I find gentle RO very useful as a warming down procedure. Also kinda soothens lips after RI. Good habit??
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Denis Wick Ultra 7C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) Stork VM6
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973)/Stork VMS6


Last edited by Seymor B Fudd on Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bert
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 5:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I practiced from the Stamp book years ago. My teacher was a strong Stamp advocate, even had lessons with the man. At that time I didn't realize it, but I never got anything out of that approach, but wrong habits. I never used it on any of my students, simply because I never understood how on earth this could be helpful, especially the pedals described in this method. The double pedals in BE made sense from the start, although I must admit that I thought them to be quite strange (Jeff knows I did).
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 732
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bert wrote:
I practiced from the Stamp book years ago. My teacher was a strong Stamp advocate, even had lessons with the man. At that time I didn't realize it, but I never got anything out of that approach, but wrong habits. I never used it on any of my students, simply because I never understood how on earth this could be helpful, especially the pedals described in this method. The double pedals in BE made sense from the start, although I must admit that I thought them to be quite strange (Jeff knows I did).


Thanks for the comment. Since I never had any formal training up top last year I used all schools I could get my hands on. Probably most helpful of them all was Charles Colin - and the advanced lipflexibilities. My trumpetteacher(17 lessons by now) recommends Stamp, but is more inclined towards Bai Lin. Prior to Stamp no pedals at all. But reconsidering, did the Stamp method help me more than Colin? Well more flexible but never balanced/stable. I did play the soprano quite well, lead barely good enough at the time, but then most of it was within the same register. Brassband always more demanding, from softest low A up to dito high C - more so the last 10 years since I now play 4:th solocornet - prior to this mostly same register.
But the (in my experience and "recorded history" yes on record )
dramatic change in range, tonal quality so far since 6 weeks with BE was quite unexpected. I have considerable difficulties merging RO&RI but there is something very special about the double pedals......anyway they come to me far more easily than the RI (slowly making sense).
Reading many other posts I find the same tendency as in my own profession: making religion out of one´s views which immediately tranforms others into heretics if not strictly following the prescriptions. By the way that is one of the things I like with BE.. the openmindedness that permeates mr Smileys writings.
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Denis Wick Ultra 7C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
Yamaha 6335 RC
King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970) Stork VM6
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973)/Stork VMS6
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