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Mr. Stomvi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1062
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 Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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OK folks - here is our question for the day. If you could design your ultimate cornet - What features would you want on it ?
I'll start it off.
1. Interchangable leadpipes like the Smith Watkins "soloist" cornet
2. OK - now it's your turn
3. When we are done - lets build one.
Seth Moore
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Downunder
Veteran Member
Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 108
Location: Sydney Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 01, 2003 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know about the interchangeable leadpipes - I know someone with one of those cornets and they found one leadpipe which they preferred and never use the rest!
However, the following features I would recommend:
1. Shepherd's crook design
2. Large bore
3. Triggers on 1st and 3rd slides
4. Traditional water keys (NOT Amados!)
5. 5" bell
6. Bell flare like the Wild Thing
7. Adjustable gap receiver
Stephen Williams
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Geri
Regular Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:05 am Post subject: |
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| I've often wondered why no one (to my knowledge) has tried to duplicate the Boston 3-star cornet. If it's supposed to be so great then just make a copy of it (ala the Zeus-Strad technique). |
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jamesfrmphilly
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Joined: 19 Oct 2002
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Location: the north philadelphia ghetto
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 5:57 am Post subject: |
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i think Monette has already designed the perfect cornet.
the trick is to make it for a price we can afford!
Alex?
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David
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Joined: 22 Nov 2002
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:31 am Post subject: |
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If you read the Flip Oakes website you'll see he already has 
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jamesfrmphilly
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Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 1376
Location: the north philadelphia ghetto
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 8:50 am Post subject: |
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$3,000 - affordable?
we live in different worlds my friend
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TrentAustin
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Joined: 06 Nov 2002
Posts: 5485
Location: KC MO
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trumpetrmb
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 137
Location: Southfield, MI
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 9:46 am Post subject: |
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I love the Conn Connstellation 38A cornet from the 60's.
XL bore, dark sound, great valves, 1st valve trigger, heavy horn, Played GREAT.
Now if only I can get by buddy to give it to me ! |
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pedaltonekid
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1711
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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In addition to the features listed above, Bobby DeNicola used to have a Puje model that had a tuning slide that could be used for any note. That was a cool feature.
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_PhilPicc
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Joined: 15 Jan 2002
Posts: 2286
Location: Clarkston, Mi. USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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I might add a Sterling Silver bell like the King SilverSonics. The trick here is to take all the great features and designs and get the right combination into one horn.
Neat Idea,
Phil
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tom turner
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 6648
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
On 2003-11-02 07:05, Geri wrote:
I've often wondered why no one (to my knowledge) has tried to duplicate the Boston 3-star cornet. If it's supposed to be so great then just make a copy of it (ala the Zeus-Strad technique).
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Hi,
I own two Boston 3-Stars (the later fixed leadpipe, low pitched ones that are so fantastic).
The 3-Star is a "lightweight" cornet, with very thin metal and super-fast response. The tone is compact, focused and gorgeous--a gentle, rich sound with a slight hint of brightness added to it's solid core. It can be played with great control at a whisper, and a great one will slot very, very well to double C. Bore is .480
I also thought it would be great for a perfectionistic maker to duplicate one of these horns. At the time (2001), I thought I'd suggest this to Flip Oakes, the man behind the Wild Thing trumpet (I'd bought a used WT from a private party the year before and was totally knocked out by that trumpet).
I invited Flip to come to the annual "Cornet Conspiracy" cornet collectors meeting. He couldn't come but offered to send his cornets to the meeting for folks to check out vs. all the great cornets of old! Needless to say, I was thrilled to be able to keep 'em for a few weeks before shipping 'em back! Cliff Blackburn was also in attendance at the event, so we had some awesome NEW cornets to play!
Flip hasn't heard this part of the story until now, but I secretly planned to send my great 3-Star back to him for evaluation when I returned the demo samples he sent, feeling that Flip could use the Boston to perfect a modern cornet just as great as the Boston. It didn't exactly work out that way . . .
I discovered that his WT short model cornet bettered the nice, Rich Ita-restored 3-Star (with rebuilt Anderson valves) by a bunch! What amounts to a "bunch" you may ask? Well . . . I'd thought I had my ultimate cornet but discovered that I simply couldn't part with the gold short model WT cornet . . . so I had to buy it! That meant a bunch of $$$ . . . but it was worth it.
I still use 'em both on a few gigs, but always I use the WT cornet. Both are great cornets, but one stands apart.
The WT short model cornet is a HEAVY cornet vs. the 3-Star being a lightweight . . . yet the WT is just as quick in response somehow. The WT bell is a larger diameter at its end and it has the fast-taper WT bell flare (like the trumpet) that gives it a super-rich, lush sound with greater power potential. It is also a joy to play at the ppp level too. Bore is smaller . . . at .470. Actually, the "wrap" of both horns is very similar overall . . . and the Boston will fit in the form-fitted WT cornet case! Hmmmmm . . .
The sound of the horn always turns heads and, like every WT I've ever played, each note seems to rest on an identical "height" and "depth" step from the petal notes into the stratosphere. Slotting is perfect to Triple C and frankly, I can't imagine a finer cornet!
Now if I could just get him to make an Eb cornet version . . . !
Sincerely,
Tom Turner |
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Geri
Regular Member
Joined: 14 Oct 2002
Posts: 78
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| Ah yes Tom, I almost forgot about drooling over the Kanstul version of that horn. I guess the Heavy vs Lighweight difference is what threw me off. The style of the triple shepard's crooks on that horn just really looks good! |
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Mr. Stomvi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:16 am Post subject: |
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"Now if I could just get him to make an Eb cornet version . . . ! Tom Turner"
That should be a piece of cake considering Kanstul already makes an Eb cornet .
Seth Moore
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Mr. Stomvi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:30 am Post subject: |
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OK - Let's summerize what we have so far.
1. Interchangable leadpipes - you only have to pay for one at time of purchase but can buy different ones later if you want
2. Triggers on 1st and 3rd slides
3. Huge bore
4. Sounds and plays like a Wild Thing (or Monette
5. Reasonably priced - unlike Monette 
6. I'll throw in interchangable bells (screw on like Stomvi Master - not Schilke type) but you only have to buy one at time of purchase. Can buy others later on if desired. Different flares and materials
7. Adjustable gap receiver
8. How about a tuning bell design like (Stomvi trumpets - not Schilke) and (seperate from interchangable bells) ?? I think this would be cool on a cornet.
9. Overall adjustable tuning slide like Besson Prestige
10. Standard water keys (although I have to say that I like the Stomvi Amados more)
OK - let's keep going - what else for our super horn ?
Seth Moore
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[ This Message was edited by: Mr. Stomvi on 2003-11-03 07:31 ] |
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plp
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 7023
Location: South Alabama
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| Ditto on the interchangable bells, as you could go with a sterling bell and eliminate the need for a trumpet, a yellow brass for a traditional cornet sound, and a rose brass to do away with the need for a flugel. Of course, an experienced player can do the same thing by changing mpcs., and a pro can do it all without any change in equipment. But for us mere mortals... |
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Mr. Stomvi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:41 am Post subject: |
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I have a Stomvi Master cornet with interchangable screw on bells. I like this feature a lot. You can really tell the difference between the solid sterling silver bell and the heavy gold plated brass bell. Much more so than on their trumpets.
As a side note on bells - I just had an interesting conversation with Anderson plating this morning. I wanted a quote on replating three of my Stomvi gold plated brass bells (Bb, picc and cornet) with silver (I like the look of the silver on a gold plated horn better). Looks like they have to completely remove the gold and silver plating and start from scratch which should run about $ 150 each which isn't bad.
I also asked them about plating the solid sterling silver bells. I mentioned that I recently tried to buff out a couple of minute surface scratchs and unfortunately while buffing the area turned to a copper color. I asked how that could be considering it was supposed to be electroformed solid sterling silver. They mentioned that most solid electroformed bells have a soldiered ring on the big end of the bell and that most companies flash copper plate the solid silver bell and then silver plate the entire bell after the ring is put on to hide the soldiering. Learn something new every day
Seth Moore
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tromba mann
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| Is the huge bore (.468-ish) preferred for most of you all? Is the large bore off-set by the tapering, etc in the cornet to keep from wearing out like you might on an XL trumpet? |
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Mr. Stomvi
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Apr 2002
Posts: 1062
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Yea - Most cornets have fairly tight leadpipes and restrictive tubing as most (but not all) traditional cornet mpcs. (i.e. Wick, etc.) have huge throats (i.e. 21, 22).
Seth Moore
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"He has Van Gogh's ear for music."
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jamesfrmphilly
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Oct 2002
Posts: 1376
Location: the north philadelphia ghetto
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:43 am Post subject: |
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are large bore cornets as hard to blow as large bore trumpets?
is a .468 cornet the same as a .468 trumpet?
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tromba mann
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Posts: 975
Location: Northern Virginia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 9:01 am Post subject: |
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JamesfrmPhilly - that was the essence of my question as well. .468 would be huge on a trumpet. I just wonder to what extent the smaller leadpipe venturi and more conical nature of the horn in general balance this. I played a .465 bore Besson Sov. with a Wick 2B last week and did not find it particularly big. Certainly not as big as my Bach C L bore trumpet with the Blackburn 12m350 pipe.
Hey experts! Help us out here! =) |
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