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HornnOOb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Jun 2010 Posts: 897 Location: East of the Sun & West of the Moon
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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The Severinsen Eterna is a fairly free-blowing paint-peeler and tends towards the brighter sound. It would make a nearly perfect big band / lead type trumpet. When compared to a more Bachish sound, the Eterna seems slightly less refined -- perhaps a bit on the brash side. A Bach strad in comparison offers a richer, more full bodied sound quality.
If you want a great lead horn with laser-like projection, the Getzen Eterna Severinsen Model is a great choice. Especially for the money. There are currently a couple on E-bay in the $480.00-$545.00 range.
I have discovered that my Severinsen Destino 3 * is a very pleasant melding of the attributes of the Severinsen Eterna and a nice bach Strad. The open lower register on the Destino is to be played to be believed. _________________ I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.
Severinsen Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna 900S Severinsen Model
1984 Getzen Eterna 896 Flugelhorn
1951 Olds Special Cornet
Denis Wick 1C Heavytop
Getzen Flugel 3C |
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chuck in ny Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Posts: 3597 Location: New York
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: |
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haven't played or even seen one but relying on reviews you could get happy with several of the shires models, stuff from oakes, scodwell, adams, eclipse, carol, and a dozen other outfits.
blowing is a tricky business and it depends on the player. bring your favorite horn and A/B it against the stiff competition out there.
there's been some progress and time and history since getzen produced back in the day. IMO you can do better, whether you need to is a personal decision. |
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cyber_shake Heavyweight Member
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 Posts: 769
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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I played everything I could get my hands on at the time, and simply found the SEV was my favorite, so I bought one in 1976 and enjoyed every minute playing it until 2004. The Romeo Adaci Referenz captured my heart in 2004 and my Adams A4 LT-S now is my favorite. I sold the SEV, but have nothing but good memories and a positive impression of that horn. I agree that it's ability to cut-through the section in jazz band or marching band is one of the strengths of the SEV. _________________ Blaine
brasshurricane@gmail.com
Schagerl LU5A
DaCarbo Unica
Adams A4 LT-S
Adams F1
Schagerl PT-200S |
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spach Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 424 Location: yazoo county, ms via northern calif. via central calif. via southern calif.
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Really informative posts in this thread. This may be a bit off tack, but I vaguely remembered reading somewhere that Doc really liked the early Besson Meha, and found a reference to that on Trumpet Masters. So, I suspect the sound he looked for in his horns was much like the sound of those early horns.
Another interesting aside (mentioned on the abel site - http://abel.hive.no/trompet/playerhorn/ ) is that Doc gave one of his Severinsen-Akright Bel Canto horns to Maurice Murphy. Whether Maurice played this horn while with the London Philharmonic isn't clear. _________________ WayneG
1925 (or '34) MEHA (#878**)(.460)(4 3/4" bell)(32.6 oz.)
"Where, then, does the soul reside with its better body while it awaits the sound of the trumpet?"--Stephen J. Gould |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Doc and Getzen |
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Tony Scodwell wrote: | I feel I can lend some input on the Getzen Severinsen Eterna model, almost from day one. For starters, Doc never played "his" Eterna with the Kiefer made two piece bell that was on the production models instead having a Bach bell with the name sanded off and the Getzen logo rolled on. He did perform only on the Getzen for years and lobbied Harold Knowlton (owner of Getzen at the time) to start using a one piece bell like the Bach. There was a bit of tension between Doc and Knowlton due to the fact that Doc had stopped drinking alcohol and Knowlton consumed quite a bit so as a former drinker Doc was put off by this. Sandy Sandberg was the head of sales and really did launch Doc's concert and clinic career driving all over the country in Sandy's Chrysler in the sixties. When Knowlton sold the company Sandy left Getzen to go with LeBlanc and was instrumental in getting Maynard, Al Hirt and Pete Fountain to play their instruments and for reasons left unsaid, went to Conn and enticed Doc to go with them on a new Severinsen model. Conn had moved to Texas by this time and Doc wasn't too happy with the horns being produced and was playing several Bachs and Bessons during this period before getting his BelCanto trumpets in production with Dick Akright. A lot of money was invested with the BelCanto project and many horns were produced always with changes as Doc fiddled with the design. Again playing his vast collection of Bachs and Bessons for a while, he was approached by the Getzen Company which was now back in the hands of the Getzen family making fine instruments. For some reason this combination didn't work out and Doc decided the only way to have a trumpet made to his satisfaction was to go to an "old world craftsman" in Germany (working along with Byron Autry) and have his personal model made by Franzie Straub and shipped to the US for sale. Fifty were made in total and again Doc wasn't happy with the quality. Now, Buffet- Crampon had worked out a deal with Doc for Kanstul to produce the 3* and 5* Destino trumpets to be distributed by Buffet-Crampon, again with design input by Byron Autry and Doc play testing each horn for approval prior to being shipped. Again Doc was not happy with this agreement and the partnership dissolved. Lee Walkowich at Washington Music Center told Doc he should talk with Steve Shires who was interested in making top level trumpets in addition to the world class trombones already in production and the newest Destino model was developed and put into production. Whew!!!
Probably more information than you cared about but as I was there for most of these deals I think my information should be accurate.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
Which Bach Bell did Doc have on his Getzen? |
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cbtj51 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Nov 2015 Posts: 724 Location: SE US
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
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I had the opportunity to play a Getzen Severinsen for about a year when I was playing 1st Trumpet in an Army Band back in the early 70s. I also had a Holton MF Horn in Green Lacquer for a field test Demo on loan from a local Music Store as well as my personal Benge 5x, so a very nice selection to choose from. As I recall, I used the Severinsen almost exclusively for outdoor performances. It made light work of cutting thru the band. I did use it a little for indoor performances but my personal Benge got most of that. So many great horns back in the day! A lot like today!!! _________________ '71 LA Benge 5X Bb
'72 LA Benge D/Eb
'76 Bach CL 229/25A C
‘92 Bach 37 Bb
'98 Getzen 895S Flugelhorn
'00 Bach 184 Cornet
'02 Yamaha 8335RGS
'16 Bach NY 7
'16 XO 1700RS Piccolo
Reeves 41 Rimmed Mouthpieces |
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Doc had Getzen use a Bach 72 bell. _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought it was a 37-style bell.
The new Shires Destino seems like one, though I don't have any special info. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7770 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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To the OP- for the mixed bag I end up playing on Bb, my Schilke B3L. I also have a beryllium X3 bell for it as well. It's free blowing, slots well, quite flexible, comfortable at all the dynamic levels I can handle and works well in "concert" and commercial venues. And the pistons always go up and down- man, Ren got that alloy right 50 years ago. |
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DickieG64 Veteran Member
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Posts: 114 Location: Weehawken, New Jersey
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:39 am Post subject: |
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In the mid 70s I played first trumpet in a regional symphony in Springfield Illinois that was filled out with instructors from the University of Illinois and the St. Louis Symphony. We did a fund raiser concert with Doc as the guest soloist. He brought with him Ross Tomkins and a bass player and drummer. Doc played and conducted on the second half of the program.
Doc came down from the dressing room at intermission. When I met him I noticed he was carrying a Bach trumpet. I asked Doc why he was playing a Bach instead of the Getzen. Doc"s response was that he set the Getzen on the wing of the small plane they came in on and it fell off. So he had to play his back up which was a Bach. I didn't really buy it, but who knows. I assume he played the Bach for Symphony gigs.
One more quick story--During the program Ross had a cadenza- like piano solo in one of the pieces. He started pretty simply and then got into a very complicated fugue. In the end it resolved to just one note. Doc looked at him
and smiled. Ross looked at Doc with a smile and shrugged his shoulders. I still get goose bumps when I think about that solo.
Buy the way, Doc played great that night.
Dick G. _________________ Chicago Benge Large bore 1947
Monette B993
Taylor Flugelhorn
Kanstul -Charlie Davis pic prototype never produced
Conn 80A Cornet
Taylor Flugle Horn
Kanstul-Charlie Davis Prototype Piccolo-never produced
1946 Conn 80A cornet |
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John Mohan Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001 Posts: 9830 Location: Chicago, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Dan O'Donnell wrote: | Doc had Getzen use a Bach 72 bell. |
Crazy Finn wrote: | I always thought it was a 37-style bell.
The new Shires Destino seems like one, though I don't have any special info. |
Does any one know for sure which Bach Bell Doc allegedly had on his Getzen? I'd be surprised if it was the 72 bell, as that is a dark-sounding bell and the Eterna was anything but dark. |
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Regarding the accuracy of my Bach 72 bell statement...let's just say that if Doc is the #1 accurate source; my source was #2... _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Dan O'Donnell wrote: | Regarding the accuracy of my Bach 72 bell statement...let's just say that if Doc is the #1 accurate source; my source was #2... |
What does that mean? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:47 am Post subject: Trumpets I think play better than Getzen docs |
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In order
Either of my solar bell eclipse or Any eclipse I've played
My Lawler c7 silver
My 52 Holton Strat
My 67 King Silver Flair
There are a few more but I always thought these were vastly superior.
Same with the new Shires.
?? Just me maybe
Rod |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: |
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Vastly superior?! _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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Rod Haney Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2015 Posts: 937
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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In the case of the Eclipse's and the Lawler yes vastly would be my word. For the Holton and King noticeably better. I've had a lot of horns in the past 3 years but not one Getzen or Bach they just didn't have "my sound". I don't have a thing against Getzen and would like to support a US company first and I love my Lawler which uses quite a few Getzen parts but has a much better sound to me. Yeah the eclipse is good enough that I paid 2x what the new Lawler cost and feel it's a bargain ( but it does have a solid silver Andy Taylor bell on it too!). I tried everything at ITG this year and nothing even came close to my 10 yr old Eclipse. I can only say try one! Even their lower cost trumpet the Celeste was better than all the others to me. Granted the Lower cost model is around 3k. Try one I think you will agree it's super easy to play and has huge sound , noticeably better.
Rod |
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Vin DiBona Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Dec 2003 Posts: 1473 Location: OHare area
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Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I just took a look at the October 2000 ITG profile on Doc.
Doc loved the bell on his 1927 Bach s/n 650. The valves were shot and he had Bach himself replace the valves. From that vintage, it is not likely it had a 72 bell.
That is the horn he took to Getzen and later to Dick Akright to copy. He was satisfied with the Akright horns with their modified Bach 25 pipe and old Bach bell style. Akright became too busy to keep up the pace and couldn't find the skilled workers they needed.
Doc noted that he would play different horns on occasion such as his old Bachs and old Bessons but never played on a horn he didn't like.
The old BachLoyalist website seems gone or we might know what bells came from the 20s.
I've played a few Getzen Severinsen models and found them quite good, although not exactly what I would choose as an all-around horn.
R. Tomasek |
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blbaumgarn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jul 2017 Posts: 705
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Posted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 pm Post subject: Horn better than a Severenson eterna |
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This is one of those topics among, particularly older trumpeters, that is akin to holding a load of plutonium approaching critical mass and having your finger on the switch. The destruction could be devastating! Knowing how horn players are staunchly attached to horns. My experience with a "doc" horn was late sixties where I could go borrow one anytime I wanted to play it, as I had a Conn 36b and I liked the Getzen better. I got to play an Eterna cornet in symphonic band in college, so I would argue that Getzen valves are the standard and it is a ways back to second place. Having said that and probably thrown more gas on the fire. The only trumpets I loved more than playing the Getzen Doc or cornet are my 73 Benge, and an occasional Schilke. I thought my Benge was a rocket ship capable of space travel and loved the Schilke cause Bill Chase played one. I had tickets to hear him at the Jackson County Fairgrounds in '74 about 30 miles from where I lived at the time, but he died tragically. The "Doc" Eterna was the first trumpet that ever let me do things out on the edge so they are still worth every penny. I just started playing again, at 67 after 18 years off and I know I will never hit double high C again, but I am looking at a couple vintage Benges and a Getzen Proteus, which is from there Eterna line. Whatever your choice from the past, there are many, many great manufacturers out there now. I wish everyone joy with the music and good playing. |
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kehaulani Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 9005 Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Bud, is my reading of your response dealing with only sound? If it is, doesn't that have more to do with apples and oranges than with "good" or "bad"? _________________ "If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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nieuwguyski Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Feb 2002 Posts: 2346 Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:45 am Post subject: |
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roynj wrote: | Another truly superior horn that I had a chance to play test a few years ago was the Scodwell made Harry James model (thanks to Washington music). This horn played with such resonance and broad feel that it seemed like magic. But I'm sure the magic was that Tony put his amazing talent into making those special horns. |
Tony made a very limited run of the Harry James Tribute trumpets, which were engraved and finished in a deluxe manner and came with a custom case.
But he'll still make the basic trumpet without the cosmetic extras. I recently ordered a such an instrument, described as a "balanced Harry James replica," and took delivery a few weeks ago.
What a great horn. Thanks, Tony! _________________ J. Notso Nieuwguyski |
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