Ready to buy flugelhorn - which would you pick?

David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

Help me make up my mind!

Conn V1
Courtois 154G
Kanstul 1524
Qouesnon
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rich · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:41 pm Post subject:

good luck with your choice of flugels.

I have a Conn Vintage One... had it for almost a year now.. very smooth. The only thing I would like is that it might be a little darker sounding... but I have not actually compared it too anything else... so I can't say that it is brighter or darker than anything else... but the sound (at least to my ears) leans slightly toward the lighter sound...maybe that is a better choice than "brighter".

I'm sure you would like the VI. Hope you will get a chance to play test your choices.
Maybe you will get some comments from players that have done some comparisons of some of the ones you list.
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_dcstep · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:12 pm Post subject:

I know the V1 and the Kanstul 1525. I don't know the Kanstul 1524 (is that a discontinued model?). I have a Couesnon C-trumpet and I've never played a Courtouis.

I say choose the V1 if you like the classic, light flugel tone and choose the 1525 if you like a darker, more trombone-like tone. Both have excellent intonation and play easily. The Leblanc Sandoval is also excellent for the darker tone.

My Couesnon C is horrible. It's one of their top of the line instruments. It's got BIG intonation problems and it's very inconsistent from register to register. I've not heard that their flugels are any better. That said, it's got a beautiful tone, perfect for chamber work, if you can fight it into tune.

Although you didn't ask, the Yamaha 731 and Shew flugels are excellent horns, in the classic, light vein.

Let us know what you decide to purchase.

Ciao,

Dave
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rich · Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:32 pm Post subject:

I can mention the Yamaha 731. I did play a friends 731 for a few tunes one day during a workshop at school when we were playing along with Band In A Box on some standards... I didn't have my VI with me so can't make a direct comparison... but the the Yamaha 731 "seemed" like it may have been darker than the VI ... on the other hand, it seemed to put out a "smaller" volume of sound than the VI. I was using his Bach 7C flugel mpc... normally I use the Claude Gordon CGP V cup mpc. Different mouthpieces, different locations, etc.... not sure that is much help.

I have also done a little recording with the VI for a CD that a friend is producing ... my buddy at school listen to some of the tracks and agreed that although the horn was very smooth sounding, it is a bit more trumpet like in it's tone.

I sent some of the tracks to Trent Austin and Pat Harbison... they might be able to comment on the dark/light issue of tone of my VI if they happen to read this thread.

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[ This Message was edited by: rich on 2003-11-02 22:34 ]

SHS_Trumpet · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:01 am Post subject:

The Qeenie flugels are like the mount vernons of flugels, if you egt a good one it's awesome, if you get a bad one watch out. The kanstul was obviously my first choice, it had everthing and more than I was looking for. The Courtois was a close second. I played a yellow brass model and it was DARK and velvety. It played extremely well but was higher priced than all the other models you mentioned. (that was a few years ago so prices change??) and I didn't care for the V! flugel although it was a good horn I wanted a darker tone.
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_dcstep · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 4:58 am Post subject:

Yamaha added a rose-brass bell to the 731 sometime in the last year. This may make it darker than a V1 (also with rose brass). I compared my old 731 (with yellow-brass bell) to a V1 for several days last month. Their tonal character was almost the same. It was very hard to tell them apart..

Dave
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Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

bophead · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 5:24 am Post subject:

I play a Kanstul (Burbank). If I were in the market again, I would look at the Kanstul Chicago. Play as many horns as possible before you buy. Best of luck!!!
hb
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David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

Of course I should try them all out, but I'm in Houston (TX USA) and haven't found a local resource that carries these brands of flugels, so I'm going to have to order one.

As for your other suggestions - I know Yamaha makes some fine horns, but I'm looking for something a little different. And I think the Sandoval may be a bit more expensive than these.

What I've found in pricing (so far):

Conn V1 = US$1,300
Courtois 154G = US$1,335
Kanstul 1524 =US$1,500
Qouesnon = haven't found a source, but loved the one I played in college so I put it on my list

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PiCK Kanstul · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 6:02 am Post subject:

David - if there's any chance you could get to Dallas on the 15th, you would at least have a chance to play the Kanstuls and the Conn.

(I know Texas is a BIG state)
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Martin J. Rooney · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:18 am Post subject:

I picked up the 154G this summer, and have been happy with it, as have a few pros who tried the horn. With the very large bell, it is not as focused as other flugels, but great tone, and relatively easy to play up top. For me it was the best fit (legit doubling only), YMMV, try them all and have fun! Mpc choice makes a big difference in blow and sound, so keept that in mind.
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Eclipse MR (gold plate)(GR65MX)
Smith Watkins C (gold plate) (464R20/H250 - GR65MX)
Kanstul CCT 920 Picc (GR62P-M)
Courtois 154G Flugel (GR65 FL)

romey1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 797

If I had the cash, I would get the Conn V1 - stunning instrument!!!!

romey

maynard-46 · Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2003 7:27 am Post subject:

Kanstul 1525...hands down!!!

Butch W.
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Jon Arnold · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Jan 2002 Posts: 2025

Yamaha 631. Has a rose brass bell. I have played for over ten years. Dark sound. Great horn. The Kanstul is a nice horn too. Get a rose brass bell.

Rick · Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 3:00 pm Post subject:

I really like my Calicchio (brass) flugel but I also understand that the Kanstul Signature ZKF 1525 flugel (with the copper bell) is the choice among studio players in LA. I was warned that the copper bell, although highly desireable, is very, very delicate. I'd really like to try both the copper belled Calicchio AND the ZKF 1525 sometime!! Dollar-for-dollar, I doubt you'd go wrong with any Kanstul flugel.

I've heard some really good things about Flip Oak's "Wild Thing" flugel but have never played one.

---<Rick

_dcstep · Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:24 am Post subject:

We'll have a good selection of flugels at the DFW TrumpetFest, including at least two Kanstuls, a Sandoval, a Vintage One, a 731 and perhaps one or two others. You'll be able to play the horns AND listen to a good player compare them in a large sanctuary.

Contact me if you'd like to attend and I'll send directions to the venue in Plano.

Dave
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Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

Keith E Miland · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 9:37 am Post subject:

I'd look long and hard at the Kanstul. You didn't list WT in your list, but I will comment. I absolutely love mine. It was worth the extra money since my main playing is in a British style brass band. Our conductor stopped rehearsal after I got it and said he couldn't believe a horn could make that much difference.

Back to the Kanstul. it is my understanding that Flip had a lot of involvement in the design of the Kanstul flugels.

Good luck and happy hunting.
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WT Flugel/FO5
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David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

From what I've seen the WT will add about $1,000 to the cost - just too high for me to justify. I believe the Callet, which has good press (but I can't even find a photo of one!), is also in the > $2,000 category.

I've since added the LeBlanc Sandoval to my list

It looks like the Kanstul is the top vote getter - but it is also the most expensive - by about $175 (with Sandoval the most affordable and the Qouesnon unpriced - they don't appear to even have a website - I do have a phone number but it is suggested you speak French if you plan to call them).
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_dcstep · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 10:28 am Post subject:

We'll have at least the following flugels available for at the DFW Trumpetfest on the 15th:
Kanstul 1525
Kanstul Custom Class w/ copper bell
Leblanc Sandoval
Conn V1 (in several finishes)
Yamaha 731 (mine)

Thanks to PC King at Pick Music, we'll have mouthpieces that will fit all the above. Of course, she's also providing the Kanstuls. (My Yamaha shank GR66FL works in the 731 and V1). I think that Airstream Music will have a good selection of Marchincowitz mps.

Maybe I'll add a flugel comparison blow in the big sanctuary (one player while the rest listen). I was really thinking mostly of trumpets, but maybe we could do 5 Bb, 5 Cs and 5 flugels. We'll have to rush a little to get in and out in our allotted time, but it'll be worth it.

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest

David · Veteran Member Joined: 22 Nov 2002 Posts: 379

I'd love to attend the trumpetfest - but it is a 5 hour drive for me.

I think Houston would be a great place to have one on the 14th or 16th!
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Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

_dcstep · Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2003 2:00 pm Post subject:

If I could figure out how to make money doing Trumpetfests, I'd be there in a flash. Unfortunately, Trumpetfests are a forum looking for participants. I'm surprised at how hard it is to get more than a few handfuls of attendees. I'll be pleased if 25 or 30 show up. Given the lineup of horns, I can't understand why 100 won't show up. I'll need to do more hustling at UNT, TCU and SMU.

I'm doing the DFW Tfest mostly for my own gratification and curiosity and working hard to make it worth while for the contributing dealers. Nobody's going to get rich doing this. That's for certain!

Dave
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Schilke '60 B1 -- 229 Bach-C/19-350 Blackburn -- Lawler TL Cornet -- Conn V1 Flugel -- Stomvi Master Bb/A/G picc -- GR mpcs
[url=http://www.pitpops.com] The PitPops[/url]
Rocky Mountain Trumpet Fest