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Sacred Cows


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IP
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Joined: 12 May 2016
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 11:56 am    Post subject: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Hello TH

I have been lurking on the internet in many different types of forums for years.
Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed?


Trying to avoid trouble here.
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

IP wrote:
Hello TH

I have been lurking on the internet in many different types of forums for years.
Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed?


Trying to avoid trouble here.


Guess it depends on what you mean by "analyzed".
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A.N.A.Mendez
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PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2016 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I think Wynton should have stayed with classical too..........
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IP
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that it is wait and see. I saw evidence the other day of some people's unwillingness to see through the Emperor's new clothes
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm relatively new to the site, but my impression is that there is no shortage of people who will say whatever comes to mind. Personally, I have no problem with commenting about anyone or anything, but respect and civility are important. Comments denigrating the likes of Wynton Marsalis or Maynard Ferguson tend to reflect poorly on the poster, but there seems to be no shortage of them. Opinions are just that. Opinions. Lack of civility, on the other hand, is in poor taste and has no place here.
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Last edited by Grits Burgh on Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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BGinNJ
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was a guy here by the name of a famous Star Trek character. Famous for being opinionated, argumentative, and ignorant. Very entertaining, and pissed off just about everybody until he was banned. One bad actor can make the whole environment toxic.
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jjtrumpet
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess my two cents would be

1. No one is too sacred for analysis.

2. Don't be a jerk about it.
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Edwin Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Scared cows?

When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.

Almost anything will scare a cow.

Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.

Edwin Jacob
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Edwin Jacob wrote:
Scared cows?

When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.

Almost anything will scare a cow.

Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.

Edwin Jacob

That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.

Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner.
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Edwin Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Edwin Jacob wrote:
Scared cows?

When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.

Almost anything will scare a cow.

Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.

Edwin Jacob

That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.

Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner.


I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.

By coincidence, I am part Indian.

About 1 percent Mohawk.

Edwin Jacob
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Edwin Jacob wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
Edwin Jacob wrote:
Scared cows?

When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.

Almost anything will scare a cow.

Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.

Edwin Jacob

That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.

Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner.


I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.

By coincidence, I am part Indian.

About 1 percent Mohawk.

Edwin Jacob

I am about 6% Cheyenne.
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Edwin Jacob
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Edwin Jacob wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
Edwin Jacob wrote:
Scared cows?

When I was a kid, I spent a lot of time on my grandparents' farm.

Almost anything will scare a cow.

Just clap your hands and it will spook a cow.

Edwin Jacob

That is only because you were in the wrong country. In India where cows are sacred, they also aren't afraid of anything.

Unlike here where they are ever vigilant to avoid becoming dinner.


I appreciate your multi-cultural insight which has enlightened me.

By coincidence, I am part Indian.

About 1 percent Mohawk.

Edwin Jacob

I am about 6% Cheyenne.


We are distant cousins !!!!!!

I'd compare family trees to see where our ancestors intersect,
but my genealogy skills are a little rusty.

Edwin Jacob
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone else, a cousin, did most of our geneolgy research. I could take a DNA test, but if it isn't true, I don't want to know. Maybe way back in the '70s I could have gotten some aid for college. Oh well.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

IP wrote:

Are there any sacred cows in the trumpet world who are deemed too important for their playing to be analyzed?

I've gotten dirty looks over the internet for saying I'm not that crazy about Miles.

From what I gather Jerome Callet enthusiasts don't like to hear any critique of him, though you'd be hard-pressed to actually find any examples of his playing to critique.

On the flip side I got peeved because an internet music reviewer didn't think much of Al Hirt's "Horn A Plenty" album, which is one of my favorite things to listen to. More pointedly I thought the guy was a clueless idiot who likes to hear himself talk.

I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later.
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Edwin Jacob
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:58 am    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
[
I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later.


Doc Severinsen is probably the most skillful trumpeter in history.

But one time I saw Al Hirt as guest on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson.

Doc Severinsen and Al Hirt played a song together.
I was expecting Doc to blow Al out of the water.
But I was surprised that when they were playing side-by-side, taking turns, Doc sounded stiff compared to Al.
Al just had a better ability to "swing".

That is not a put-down of Doc.
It is just a compliment to Al, that he surprised me by being even better than Doc in that particular style of playing.

The same is true regarding Doc Severinsen versus Maynard Ferguson.
Both were the best at what they did, but they excelled in different ways with different skill sets.

BTW, it was only in the last few years that I became a fan of Al Hirt.
I had no idea that he could tongue and finger like he did in the Green Hornet theme.
That was stunning.

Edwin Jacob
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Joe Manzanares
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To each his own...
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Re: Sacred Cows Reply with quote

Edwin Jacob wrote:
Robert P wrote:
I once heard a band director say he thought Doc's playing was "too mechanical". I thought it was an invalid statement then when I was in high school and I feel even more strongly about it now years later.


Doc Severinsen and Al Hirt played a song together.
I was expecting Doc to blow Al out of the water.
But I was surprised that when they were playing side-by-side, taking turns, Doc sounded stiff compared to Al.
Al just had a better ability to "swing".

Interesting, I'd be curious to see the video both to see if I concur with your conclusion and just to see it. I wish all that old Tonight Show video of the band was readily available, but as I understand it a lot of older Tonight Show material was destroyed.

I never heard Doc have any problem swinging. Al Hirt was a phenomenal player of course, he was a style unto himself - they were totally different players.

Another video I wish was available is the Superbowl pregame or halftime show featuring Doc wearing an indian headdress and Al wearing a Viking hat having a trumpet "duel". There are still pics online but I've never found audio or video of it.
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LittleRusty
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning.

If you've never heard it, I recommend his "Horn A Plenty" album. Different than any other album he ever did. Everything about it is superb - Al was at the top of his game, incredible, sparkling arrangements by Billy May, a top-notch orchestra behind him (Gozzo on lead) which included french horn, tuba and harp, and state of the art recording. I never get tired of listening to it.
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Comeback
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
LittleRusty wrote:
Its been a long time since I listened to Al. Glad I checked him out on spotify this morning.

If you've never heard it, I recommend his "Horn A Plenty" album. Different than any other album he ever did. Everything about it is superb - Al was at the top of his game, incredible, sparkling arrangements by Billy May, a top-notch orchestra behind him (Gozzo on lead) which included french horn, tuba and harp, and state of the art recording. I never get tired of listening to it.

Thank you for the album tip, Robert P. I have been a fan of Al for many years, but never got around to focusing on specific albums. I do enjoy my Al Hirt Pandora station though...

Jim
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