A darker flugel mouthpiece?

[glove_of_power]

I've got a 50s Couesnon flugel which is a wonderful instrument and I'd like to upgrade my mouthpiece for it. Right now I am playing on a Bach 1.5CFL which is a fairly deep v-cup. Checking it out on the Kanstul Mouthpiece Comparator though, I see the actual rim size is almost matched to a standard Bach 3C, which is not what I thought I was getting when I selected a "1.5".

The 1.5CFL is okay, but I just feel that it isn't "Flugel-y" enough, if you know what I mean. I have a few recordings where I'm switching between trumpet and flugel, and if I use a "dark" sounding trumpet mouthpiece it can be hard to tell what parts were trumpet and what parts were flugel, which should never be the case in my opinion. Flugel should be immediately darker and obvious compared against trumpet. I have since switched over to a brighter trumpet mouthpiece, and now I want to go even darker/mellower/richer on my flugelhorn for maximum contrast between the two.

For many years I played on a bach 1X mouthpiece on trumpet, so I am comfortable with a large rim and a deep cup, which I think is going to be a requirement for getting the darkest sound possible. When I purchased the horn it also came with a mouthpiece that was stamped with the Couesnon logo and no other markings. It's very V-shaped mouthpiece, closer to french horn than trumpet really. In trying out that unmarked Couesnon mouthpiece I do like the tone although it is simply too small for my lips, and suffers for it. I am wondering if I need an extreme v-cup to get that obvious flugel sound which is immediately distinguishable from trumpet.

Any thoughts or reccommendations? Thanks!
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2003 Kanstul Wayne Bergeron (1600)
Bach Strad 37 ML
1960s King Master Series Cornet
1911 Holton Collegiate Cornet
1950s Couesnon Flugel

[Crazy Finn]

Quick thoughts:

- Bach makes mouthpieces that fit into flugels, but in my opinion - which is shared by many others - Bach doesn't actually make a flugel mouthpiece. It fits into a flugel, but it's more of a trumpet-ish mouthpiece with a flugel shank on it - especially the ones with a "C" in there. That's pretty trumpet-y for a flugel. Some people like them, but if you're looking for a flugel sound with more flugel in it, find something other than a Bach that fits into your flugel (or at least get one without a C in there).

- Speaking of fitting into your flugel, there are 3 common tapers that flugel mouthpieces come in - and flugels are designed to accept. There's the large morse/standard for Yamaha and others. There's the Bach/small morse. Then there's the "french taper", which actually doesn't have a taper. Those are found on your Couesnon.

You're playing your french taper flugel with a Bach taper mouthpiece.

(Sure, it fits, because the Bach has a small taper and fits into almost anything - it kind of fits into a cornet, even, badly.)

There are plenty of options - Curry, Stork, Flip Oakes makes extreme flugel pieces, among many others. Step one is to look for ones with a french taper to fit into flugel best.

Don't feel bad. I played a Yamaha flugel with a Bach mouthpiece in college - I had no idea.

http://www.bobreeves.com/blog/flugelhorn-mouthpiece-guide/

http://www.mouthpieceexpress.com/specshub/flugeltapers.html
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn

[giakara]

Reeves 43.5HFL french taper.

Regards
_________________
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2015
Lawler TL6-1A Bb 2004
Lawler TL5-1A Bb 2003
Getzen eterna 910 C
Getzen eterna 850 cornet
Selmer Paris 3 valve picc
Yamaha 731 flugel
Carol mini pocket
Reeves/Purviance mpcs

[GuidoCorona]

There are lots of wonderful flugel mouthpieces on the market... Most of them delivering their own special kind of flugelly magic....


Curry FlM, Fl, and the dark one of the family... FlD.

The magical Stork models...
FlS, and the darker Fl.

And the darkest of 'em all: The Flip Oakes Extreme.


Guido
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Cornet: Carolbrass CCR7772R-GSS
Euphoniums: Miraphone M5050. Wessex Festivo

[TrentAustin]

We are happy to help!


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[iiipopes]

Why does everybody think that a tone so dark it approaches sine wave is the best? It is not! The taper of the typical flugel bell accentuates different lower overtones than a trumpet or cornet, but it is not so dark as to approach oblivion.

Yes, having contrast to trumpet is the reason to own a flugel. But as pipe organ manufacturers found out a century ago, the largest, darkest tone does not play well with others, and this particular tonal concept was discarded in favor of a more moderate approach. The same should be done with flugels.

What is the character of this particular flugel? Some are inherently dark, others have a few more overtones in the mix. The key is to get a mouthpiece that brings out the personality of the particular instrument. If the OP's horn sounds best with the factory mouthpiece, then have someone like Jim New duplicate it with a wider cup I.D. He did that for me for a tuba mouthpiece that I liked everything but the cup I.D., and the results were spectacular.

My particular Couesnon sounds best with the factory mouthpiece, albeit it is a shade brighter than the current fad, and would have been considered in the middle of the spectrum a generation ago. I have friends with other makes and models that run the spectrum from very dark to almost cornet toned.

In order, the priorities should be:
consistency of tone throughout the registers (not necessarily any particular shade of timbre)
consistency of intonation
(if in section) blend.

If it is a well made flugel, then it will shine with its inherent tonality, and just like a trumpet, the key is to find a good one and stick with it.

Sorry, enough rant. Time to go practice.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

[Grits Burgh]

I personally think that if a man wants dark, he should have it. Unless you have to earn a living playing a horn, don't let anybody tell you what sounds good. Play the music you like. Be happy. Use a Flip Oakes flugel mouthpiece if you want to.

Personally, I'm happy with the Curry series. I have a 3 FLD. The 3 FLM is next on my shopping list. I'll soon enough check them out in a 1 rim. And just because I can't stop myself, I'll eventually get some Flip Oakes pieces as well.
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Bach Stradivarius 37 (1971)
Schilke HC 1
Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
B&S 3145 Challenger I Series Flugelhorn
Life is short; buy every horn you want and die happy.

[Ed Kennedy]

Here's one in the market place:

[trumpaholic]

I had very good results when I played a Couesnon flugelhorn with a Warburton 2 FLX, very deep with I think a 14 drill. I also have used a 1 Curry FLD which was outstanding as well. As others have said, you need a French Taper mouthpiece no matter what size or shape.
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Have horn, will travel!

[adagiotrumpet]

I have an old Couesnon flugel. I normally use a Warburton FL or FLX on it. the sound is great, but the low G and F# are extremely sharp so a 3rd valve trigger is a must. I also have a Flip Oaks Extreme which produces a great sound - for whole notes, at least for me. Trying to move around the horn on it can be hit or miss.

[Robert P]

[Turkle]

I play a Curry 3FLD. on my old Yamaha flugel. It sounds utterly lovely. Here's the crazy thing - even though the piece is about 3x as deep as my previous flugel piece, I find that I can easily hit up to a high C with no problem. Whatever voodoo he puts in this mouthpiece, it works.

Good luck!
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Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.

[razeontherock]

[RichieBill]

Hi Everyone!

I have a silver plated Besson Sovereign and also I have 3 mouthpieces for them: Wick 4, 4F and Stork 3FLD. Generally playing on these 3 mouthpieces is easy blow for me but in my impression, they still sound closer to my Olds Ambassador cornet than to typical flugelhorn sound.
Is it possible to find any mouthpiece which will be closer to flugelhorn in sound than my Wicks and will sound on my Besson significantly darker and smoothly, much closer to the flugelhorn?

I found some recommendations on this forum, like: Curry Flip Oakes F0 or 1FL, Wick 2F or 2FL.
Are they good recommendations for my expectations or not or maybe any different?
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cornet - Olds Ambassador,
Denis Wick S, 4. Flip Oakes XFL1

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[RichieBill]

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[RichieBill]

[cheiden]

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