Warburton arturo Sandoval top

Martinharris · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236

Hey guys,
I need someone who has played on the warburton arturo top to tell me if it has exactly the same rim as the horn trader rim or compare it to another mt vernon 3C copy?
Thanks

TKSop · Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:03 pm Post subject:

Noticeably larger ID than a Curry 3-dot and doesn't feel as broad in profile either.

Not sure if the horntrader 3 rim is Curry's current 3(dot) rim or the older Curry 3 rim, but I believe they're made by Curry?

Martinharris · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236

Thanks, but what do you mean "broad profile"?

TKSop · Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject:

I meant the rim itself is broader (wider), independent of the ID.

NYC-player · Heavyweight Member Joined: 03 Jun 2016 Posts: 627

McVouty · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149

Your post is timely as I have just sold my Arturo top on ebay and am putting it in the post tomorrow

I have a Curry 3C. and a HT3CS-28 for comparison.

All three have the same rim profile, which is flatter than a modern 3C and very comfy.

The Arturo top is closer to a modern 1 1/4C in both cup width and depth IMO.

Its hard to compare exactly the warburton and the HT but both visually and on the lips they look and feel to be pretty close. The Warburton is much deeper than the HT-3CS though.

I couldn't find a Warburton backbore out of my small collection that worked for me with the Arturo top. If I want to play something that big, I would go to my Bach 1 1/4C in preference - however nowadays I'm heading towards more moderate rim diameters

Hope that helps.

delano · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:32 pm Post subject:

I play the Warburton Arturo cup on all my horns. I always thought that it was a relatively small 3C cup but I seem to be wrong. Anyhow the A cup is or feels smaller than my VB corp. 3C mp.
On my trumpets I use a 5bb (great combination) on cornet a 7 or my custom Jim New made Conn short shank bb..
I really love the Arturo cup, plays so well. Part of the trick is the semi-narrow 5 bb. The backbores of the VB's and the Curry's are too big for me.

Martinharris · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236

Thankyou SO MUCH guys!
I'm actually copying a rim for a custom piece (I'm not even keeping the same diameter) but I needed to know that the warburton and the horn trader pieces have exactly the same rim contour.
That's what I'll order

GordonH · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 1:27 am Post subject:

The Curry 3 rim is rounder than the Horntrader one. I have not compared the diameters. I have also not seen the Warburton Arturo rim.
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delano · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 4:43 am Post subject:

StupidBrassObsession · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014

I have the Warburton and the HT3CS. The rim sizes are quite different. The Arturo top seems more like a 1.5C with a different cup shape. The rim feels.different to me too, the HT feels softer and friendlier, but that might just be how the different diameters interact with my teeth.

John Mohan · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:11 am Post subject:

Yes, as others have written, while the Horntrader mouthpieces have the contour (shape) of Arturo's rim, they are sized smaller in diameter than Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C. The Horntrader mouthpieces have a cup diameter that is a tad smaller than that of a modern 3C (which itself is a tad smaller than Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C).

While this isn't about the Warburton copy of Arturo's mouthpiece, I do have some info to share:

Jim New is up and running now and his website address is:

http://www.james-r-new.com/

He has a full in line of mouthpieces available with three different rim shapes, three different depths and 5 different cup diameters. Now here's the cool info:

His S ("Standard") rim shape, which he describes on the website as being "comparable to a quality Bach 3C rim shape" is actually an exact copy of the rim shape (contour) from Arturo Sandoval's favorite Mt Vernon 3C mouthpiece. This rim is available sized up or down in diameter depending on the rim (cup) diameter size ordered, but always with the same shape (contour) in any of his cup sizes.

And his 5 rim (cup) diameter is the exact diameter of Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C. If this rim size is ordered with his M (Medium) cup depth and his S ("Studio") Backbore, one ends up with an exact copy of Arturo Sandoval's Mt Vernon 3C, save for the throat (Arturo's has a #24 Throat where as Jim ships his mouthpieces with a large-ish #27 throat). One could order the mouthpiece with a #24 throat if they want an exact copy right down to the throat size.

So, in summary, if one wants a copy of the Arturo Sandoval Mt Vernon 3C, one would order from Jim a S5M cup on an S Backbore and ask for a #24 throat. And if one wants a shallow version (about the depth of a Reeves S cup), one can order a S5S with an S backbore (or an L "Lead" Backbore if one likes a lot of resistance).

Jim recently sent me a bunch of mouthpiece tops and bottoms for testing and they are superb. In particular, the S5M cup with the S backbore feels exactly on my lips like my copy of Arturo's Mt Vernon 3C that Jim made me when he was with Kanstul. When playing it, it feels almost exactly the same (note that it has the stock #27 throat where as mine has the #24 throat and that would account for the very slight difference in playing feel and sound).

I think Jim is also planning on doing a run of one-piece exact copies of Arturo's mouthpiece, with even the same Mt Vernon Bach Blank shape at some point in the future. But in the meantime, one can get it all (except the slightly different Mt Vernon Blank shape) by ordering a S5M/S cup/backbore combination from him with a #24 throat (though for many if not most, the stock #27 throat is probably fine and can always be bored out later if desired).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Karel · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:23 pm Post subject:

John, what are the differences in comparison with the Bach mouthpieces? for me Bach mouthpieces are not as easy to play and less comfortable as state-of the art mouthpieces as Reeves, GR, Stomvi-Flex. Are those new pieces a "modern" and better playing alternative instead of the Bach oldtimers??

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:37 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:20 am Post subject:

John Mohan · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:35 am Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject:

delano · Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:08 pm Post subject:

This thread is going alittle bit weird but also confusing. How is it possible that the HT's MV3C and the W Arturo cup are both copies of Arturo's MtV 3C but that they ate quite different in cup depth?
And am I the only one who really loves the Warburton Arturo cup?

Martinharris · Veteran Member Joined: 10 Dec 2015 Posts: 236

I'd also like this thread to stop going so off topic.
One of my custom pieces will be used for classical playing and for this I'd like to warburton to make a cup very similar to the curry 3C cup. Terry made me a Bach 3C cup but it was too shallow, the sound was no where near as nice as the curry cup. Any ideas on what to ask for? (Btw, the MD cup is too deep for me)

GordonH · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:04 am Post subject: