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LefreQue Tone Bridge


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NYC-player
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
Uberopa wrote:
I have a 43* Strad and I prefer the response without the sound bridge. I have tried to like heavy valve trim kits but they are not for me. The effect in the video is what I experienced on a two octave C major scale though. Perhaps nott my cup of tea.


I'm playing a 70's era 37 in that video.

I know what you're talking about, Uberopa. I like it to be slippery up there when I'm playing over the top of a band so I don't use it in those playing situations. For everything else, I prefer it.

I've let some others guy try it, and the feelings have been mixed in terms of liking the effects that the LeFreque offers. However, they all say it changes something in the sound and in the response. That part can't be denied, in my opinion.


Sounds good Mike,

The intonation on your first vid with arpeggios to C was the most obvious to me. The high C was not as flat as it was, and the horn did ring better.

I say improvement. You sound great anyway, but hell.....stick with it!!!
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me, concert C is also closer to being in tune with the normal fingering with the LeFreque on.
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Uberopa
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that if I was a stronger player with a better upper register I would like it more. I can understand that the effect of the sound bridge really varies with the player and the type of playing and sound profile desired. Best suggestion I would make is to try it to see if it works for you. It does make a difference. The decision is if you like the difference.
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trpthrld
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First - thank you, Mike, for correct demo vids. Long enough to establish the point both with and without the device. None of the "dig me while I show you my chops instead of what the thing does."

Second, I wish there were a way to set this thread for a 6-month wake-up call. That generally seems to be the length of time for a honeymoon with new equipment.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice playing, Mike!

I hear a very obvious difference, "with" being more centered and clear. Maybe that shouldn't surprise me since I usually play horns with a receiver / leadpipe thick enough that I doubt this device could even be attached.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trpthrld wrote:
First - thank you, Mike, for correct demo vids. Long enough to establish the point both with and without the device. None of the "dig me while I show you my chops instead of what the thing does."

Second, I wish there were a way to set this thread for a 6-month wake-up call. That generally seems to be the length of time for a honeymoon with new equipment.


Thanks, Tim. I was trying to figure out the best way to do a comparison, so I'm glad it worked out.

Here's me playing some music with it on.


Link

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Fuzzy Dunlop
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice solo, Mike! Sounds very good.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
Nice solo, Mike! Sounds very good.


+1 Very tasty.
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not tried one, but here are my thoughts:

Anti
This was originally designed for use across cork joints in saxaphones. THis makes sense as the resonance is blocked by the cork. On a trumpet it is all metal to metal joints so the effect could not be the same. Also, the way the sound vibrates in a brass instrument is different.

Fitting the thing would annoy me too much.

Pro
Stephen Mead has done a few videos where there is clearly a difference (although this is on Euphonium) e.g.

Link

As have others [Steve Dillard and posters above in this thread]

Somewhere in between
I suspect that what is going on here is a combination of adding mass at the receiver (like a heavy receiver) and creating a better contact between the mouthpiece and the receiver. You can get something like this effect by following David Monette's advice and turning the mouthpiece a quarter of an inch after you insert it. In other words, tighter than you probably currently fit the mouthpiece. I can tell when I have not done this as the instrument does not resonate as well. It would be interesting to tie some washers on the receiver and see if that made any difference.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 4:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The theory behind the LeFreque is that a joint in a wind instrument, like where the mouthpiece meets the receiver, affects the transmission of the fundamental tone and the higher overtones differently. They travel across the joint at different speeds, so that the higher frequency overtones slow down and rise in pitch slightly. The instrument is slightly out of tune with itself, even just playing one note. The LeFreque acts as a sound bridge that enables the fundamental and overtones to travel at the same speed and stay in tune with themselves.

This makes the instrument sound better because the fundamental and overtone frequencies are better aligned. It also makes it easier to play in tune across the range of the instrument and with others in an ensemble because the center of intonation for each pitch on the instrument is more clearly defined.
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trumanjazzguy
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the 41mm "Student" model? At $25 on Horntrader.com, it seems like a steal...? Steve says on his site "Pure, warm sound abounding with no overtones, but increased flexibility in dynamics, and great intonation.
More warmth and fluid tone"...makes me think this would be THE one to use on a Flugelhorn! Again, has anyone tried the "student" model?

I already have a 33mm solid silver and red brass one, of those two, the red brass works better for me on my scratch-lacquer Benge 5X, the silver one is less noticeable on a horn that isn't silver as well (for some reason I can't nail down...). On my silver plated Pan-American 64b, the solid silver one produces better results than the red brass.
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Bstradivarius
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Brass Lefreque is useful for my silver plated cornet. I also used it on the Schilke G1L F trumpet. For those two, it seems to improve the sound and intonation. I dislike the clumsiness of taking it on and off. I don't have time for that. Those two horns fit in the case without removing the mouthpiece (and Lefreque).

That being said, could someone elaborate more on the sterling silver one? Is it much better than the red brass?
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mfan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a sterling silver one and it makes a big difference on my Yamaha Eric Miyashiro. I just got a Hub Van Laar B6 though and the difference is not as noticeable. I think like everything else you have to match the horn to the device. For my friend on an old Strad the sterling silver was not right but the raw brass was great for him. I didn't like the raw brass on my EM. I may like it on my Van Laar though. I really think you have to match it to your horn.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
First - thank you, Mike,...

Second, I wish there were a way to set this thread for a 6-month wake-up call. That generally seems to be the length of time for a honeymoon with new equipment.


Thanks, Tim. I was trying to figure out the best way to do a comparison, so I'm glad it worked out....

So, Mike, have you continued to use the lefreQue since this thread two years ago? I had tried some of them Summer 2016 but found that it attenuated the sound (as mass applied to our horns will tend to do) and had some positive benefits, but I also experienced some drawbacks, namely, where the sound lacked some of the luster I felt I needed. I am in a different place with my playing now and plan to try out some this weekend. One of the flute players in the pit got the high-end 24K gold ones this past Feb and has been telling me about his experience. He and another woodwind player are scheduled to meet between shows tomorrow and will let me try what they have. I have not tried the $3K solid gold ones before; it will be interesting.
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Mike Sailors
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstpt wrote:
Mike Sailors wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
First - thank you, Mike,...

Second, I wish there were a way to set this thread for a 6-month wake-up call. That generally seems to be the length of time for a honeymoon with new equipment.


Thanks, Tim. I was trying to figure out the best way to do a comparison, so I'm glad it worked out....

So, Mike, have you continued to use the lefreQue since this thread two years ago? I had tried some of them Summer 2016 but found that it attenuated the sound (as mass applied to our horns will tend to do) and had some positive benefits, but I also experienced some drawbacks, namely, where the sound lacked some of the luster I felt I needed. I am in a different place with my playing now and plan to try out some this weekend. One of the flute players in the pit got the high-end 24K gold ones this past Feb and has been telling me about his experience. He and another woodwind player are scheduled to meet between shows tomorrow and will let me try what they have. I have not tried the $3K solid gold ones before; it will be interesting.


I have not. I kept knocking it off so I just stopped using it.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Sailors wrote:
dstpt wrote:
Mike Sailors wrote:
trpthrld wrote:
First - thank you, Mike,...

Second, I wish there were a way to set this thread for a 6-month wake-up call. That generally seems to be the length of time for a honeymoon with new equipment.


Thanks, Tim. I was trying to figure out the best way to do a comparison, so I'm glad it worked out....

So, Mike, have you continued to use the lefreQue since this thread two years ago? I had tried some of them Summer 2016 but found that it attenuated the sound (as mass applied to our horns will tend to do) and had some positive benefits, but I also experienced some drawbacks, namely, where the sound lacked some of the luster I felt I needed. I am in a different place with my playing now and plan to try out some this weekend. One of the flute players in the pit got the high-end 24K gold ones this past Feb and has been telling me about his experience. He and another woodwind player are scheduled to meet between shows tomorrow and will let me try what they have. I have not tried the $3K solid gold ones before; it will be interesting.


I have not. I kept knocking it off so I just stopped using it.

Hahahaha! I just told the flute player that that is the one thing I really don't like about those things...the "hairband" used to hold them on the instrument looks soooo cheap! Really?! They want you to buy a $3000 24K solid gold device and strap it to an instrument that costs more than that and use a hairband I could get from my wife's vanity drawer?!
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size do you use? Does the playing make any difference ?
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
What size do you use? Does the playing make any difference ?

Hi CJceltics33, if you're asking me, I don't have any at this time. I bought three low-end models over two years ago and tried them for a few days and sent them back. I felt that they had some drawbacks. Could I tell that they made a difference in sound, pitch, response, et al? Yes. That was the summer of 2016.

Fast forward to our present two-week show run. One of the reed players told me last week that he got a couple lefreQues in February. He said that he spent every spare moment when not in educational seminars in order to test them on his flute at the lefreQue booth. He was looking at buying a new head joint for his flute, which was priced at $5K. He bought a medium- and high-priced (solid gold) lefreQue, but he saved considerably by not having to buy a new head joint.

On Saturday (two days ago), I spent some time trying the two of his (both 33mm, 24K Solid Yellow Gold and Solid Silver/Yellow Gold Plated), plus, one other from another flute player that joined us (41mm Solid Silver/Rose Gold Plated). The other guy only chose one lefreQue that he uses on his head joint; putting one on the foot joint darkened the sound too much for him. He ended up sounding the best on the one he already had, even though he tried the 1st guy's solid gold model. When we got to me trying them on the trumpet, they were both blown away with the positive change in sound with all three, but particularly the solid gold model. It produced more core, which then highlighted the overtones, and the response noticeably changed to instantaneous (which was a great result after being beat up from our first show that day).

I have been in email correspondence with one of the main persons at the company, and he told me today that often they recommend the 41mm for trumpet, but that the 33mm in solid gold will definitely work well due to the purity of the metal, which is what I experienced.

Now I'm presented with the dilemma of saving up for one of these puppies after having two custom horns just made for me! Ouch! I do want to spend more quality time trying different models but with a pair of quality ears listening out in front of the bell at various distances. The nearest location with a sizable number of lefreQue models to try is about a 5-hour drive, so it will take some juggling in my schedule to make that happen any time soon. We’ll see what happens…
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks very much for your response! I did not want to hear that the solid gold works best, ah well...I would have loved to design a more affordable version but I don’t have $2800 to test the lefreque. I wonder why the solid gold one works so much better...? If the material really does make a difference then it may not be possible to design a cheaper tone bridge.
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dstpt
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CJceltics33 wrote:
Thanks very much for your response! I did not want to hear that the solid gold works best, ah well...I would have loved to design a more affordable version but I don’t have $2800 to test the lefreque. I wonder why the solid gold one works so much better...? If the material really does make a difference then it may not be possible to design a cheaper tone bridge.

I know, right?! I was hoping that there would be no difference with or without any of the lefreQues, especially the more costly ones! It's enough to put myself through horn and mouthpiece safaris as is! The ones I tried 2.5 years ago were not nearly as expensive and did make a change, but I had hoped that these would be close in results to those, which would then convince me that I'd be just as satisfied with the less expensive ones as the high-end ones (or just as satisfied not using any, which is the route I’ve chosen to date). The explanation that was given by the rep to the one flautist that bought the solid gold one is that the purer metal transfers the energy and other sound elements more efficiently, which, for us, would be across the “bridge” of the mouthpiece to the leadpipe. (I am pretty sure that is what he told me, but the company may explain it with a slightly different slant/emphasis.)

We can see from earlier posts in this thread that there is a lot of conjecture over these, just as we’ve seen with things in the past, like cryo treatment, wooden mutes, and expensive cases. I would encourage those interested to try these…with an open mind…and if possible, have a quality ear listening on the other end of the bell…one whom is non-biased and varying their distance from you as you play. I now believe it should be a priority to have someone else listening to give you feedback, which is something I did not have when I first tried them. Ideally, I think it should be a professional brass player or other professional musician that can really hear the nuances in the sound. Then again, if you perform into a microphone most of the time, it may not be necessary at all to have someone else listen to you.

I really wish the solid gold ones weren’t so expensive, but I may find a cheaper set that does an even better job…for me. From the emails with one of their reps in The Netherlands, and from my experience with the two flautists and the three total they had, I gather that it can be that you’d find a lower-priced one to give you better results than a more expensive one.

Regarding the making of your own: I do know that the company put quite a bit of R&D and trial and error, et al, into their product, so you may end up spending money on a piece of jewelry that your loved one may not eventually be able to wear…and maybe about $2-3K less rich! Ha! Do we hear and experience a difference in a mouthpiece change that is ever-so-slightly smaller/larger than the one we currently play?! Well, I think the lefreQues could be the same.
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