Can you help identify this horn?

[BrentD]

So I was thinking about dipping my toes back in the water after many years away and the local winds shop has a friendly rental program. I narrowed my choices down to a Getzen 390 and a Besson (I believe a BE1000). I was going to go with the Getzen, but asked if I could check out the fancier horns just for fun. The owner set me loose with a room full of cases.

I pulled this small case out and he apparently forgot he had the horn I grabbed, so was willing to rent it despite it seeming a step up from a student model.

The horn is a Sterling Concert Model. All I can find online is that it's a British company - its website is being overhauled and has no product information. The horn has some upscale-looking features like faceted valve buttons, a water slide as opposed to key, etc. On top of that the horn appears to be gold plated (the store owner said it was, too). It seems to play very nicely and a teacher in the shop played it for me as well. It sounds very nice.

Mostly I'm just curious; any information about Sterling instruments would be helpful. I have posted a couple of photos. The logo picture is a little blurry but hopefully it gives you an idea of the font (it says "Sterling Concert Model").

[p76]

Other people will chip in I'm sure, but I think a Jinbao stencil horn.

Cheers,
Roger
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C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[TrentAustin]

Looks like a Weril valve block and serial # engraving to me.
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[royjohn]

Yes, there was a Sterling made in the UK by my research, and also a Selmer-Sterling, but those latter had Selmer engraved as well as Sterling. Some say that the UK Sterling was a high intermediate level horn. However, I think they are playing you about the gold plating. I don't know why anyone would gold plate an intermediate horn. It should be pretty easy for a tech to tell you whether it is lacquered or gold plated. The photos look lacquered to me, but photos can be deceptive.

If the rental price is reasonable, you might rent it for a few months. I wouldn't get into a long term contract until I knew more about what I wanted, and still would probably look to purchase something rather than rent long term.

A few months with a rental should tell you whether you want to continue.

Any decent music store should have somebody on staff who can tell a gold plated instrument from a lacquered one, and if they are aware it is probably lacquered and trying to pass it off as gold plate, that leaves a very bad taste in my mouth, no matter how reasonable the rental.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[BrentD]

Thank you all for the input so far. The rental is very reasonable and if I should change my mind I can turn it in or, if I upgrade to another horn, they apply my payments toward the new instrument.

I sent an email to the UK Sterling company and we'll see if they respond. It's three in the morning there so it'll be a while anyway.

More than one person in the shop said it looked plated, though I don't put it past a salesman with a staff to corroborate each other even if they shouldn't be doing so. I mainly was hoping to avoid a trap horn and the reasonable rental/trade out option may protect me here. I'd be a little ticked if it weren't a high-quality horn, mostly because I feel strongly that the Getzen is even as a student model.

[royjohn]

IDK what the rental rates are there, but an Olds Ambassador, a nice beginners horn, is available for $60 to $150. I got one out of a local pawn shop where it had sat for a while (they had two) for $60 a while back. It needs a little de-denting and maybe I'll try a new leadpipe on it or make it into a Frankenhorn with sheet bracing...haven't decided yet.

There are also lots of craigslist King 609's and Bach TR300s and other starter horns. Esp. in the summer before school starts in August/September. Then the prices goes up.

But my point is that these are very nice beginner's horns for cheap and you can get your money back if you decide to chuck it. So I wouldn't be stuck in the rental trap any longer than it took me do decide whether I wanted to play or give up. You should probably be able to decide that in the first month. Good luck!
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[BrentD]

[p76]

[Maarten van Weverwijk]

[BrentD]

Update: I talked to a place that had this horn (it was purchased by my local shop in a liquidation from a place a few hours away when they switched to only selling tubas and euphonia). They said it was a student horn likely given as a sample piece by the manufacturer, not plated, and is probably 15 years old. They referred me to Paul Riggett as the manufacturer.

It feels like a nice enough horn but I have a bit of a bad taste from the deal. Although I can switch out at no cost, I still feel like I should have taken the Getzen 390 to begin with.

Thanks for all of your input.

[Crazy Finn]

[royjohn]

Hi Brent,

I forgot to mention in my post that "Concert Model" sounds like a fake or stencil name, not a pro horn designation.

I did note that it was unlikely that the horn was gold plated and that your seller "knew or should have known" that. You were warned, but you're not the first to be tempted by a shiny new horn. If it seems too good to be true, it is.

I would either keep it or switch to the Getzen or whatever if the other plays better. Then I would give it a month to decide what I might like to do. If you decide to stay with it, there are lots of good options for used pro level horns or good starter horns (such as the Ambassador) from $100 to $700.

If I were you, when I took the rental back I would let the folks in the store know that you feel you were lied to and had...and that they have just lost your business from now on. In most towns, there's more than one music store. You might also consider a letter to the BBB.

But let's not lose sight of the fact that you're embarking on an exciting venture, learning to play the trumpet/cornet/flugelhorn/bass trumpet/alto horn. Lots of fun, lots of possibilities. Yea! Go for it! Hope you like it.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[BrentD]

Thanks. I wasn't warned as I already had the horn by the time I first posted. I asked the guy about it today and we had a chat. I think he really thinks it's plated and since he's cool about switching out I won't be a turd.

Mostly I just wanted to figure out what I had. For the money, I'll probably switch horns if I'm going to stick with it. I'm a comeback guy but I play a few other instruments and there's only so much time in the day.

[royjohn]

Reading back over your thread, the wording doesn't make it clear to me that you already got the horn and then asked for advice about it...hence my remark. But glad it is working out and I apologize if I jumped to a conclusion.

As you'll probably learn if you become a horn freak like me, gold plated horns are few and far between and they tend to look very special with other custom touches. I have two. One is pretty obviously a custom horn with a copper bell and leadpipe and silver and gold accents and it's also a C trumpet, which is often a more expensive horn. The other is an antique from 1928 and it is engraved all over the bell, inside and out, all the way back to the bell bow. Obviously a special horn. Also, plate just looks different from lacquer. Lacquer is a coating and you can see that it has some thickness to it. It's a subtle difference, but it's there. A plated horn looks like a front surface mirror.

But the important thing is you'll be able to get the horn you want from the store and then go on to something of your choosing if you decide to continue.

A friend of mine once remarked as we headed into our fifties that we tended to suffer fools less gladly. If I were in your situation and the store knew as little about their merchandise as you describe and actually tread on the border of fraud in describing the horn, I would walk out of there and never go back. There are plenty of places to get trumpets which will not waste my time.

I've taken a number of baths in my life for tens, hundreds and even thousands of dollars. Tomorrow I'll start interviewing people to fix a septic system into which I have already sunk $5K because I trusted the wrong people. Luckily I have a list of at least 50 firms to contact and the one with the most intelligent, no nonsense approach will get the job. I'm going to listen for all of thirty seconds to anyone who doesn't make sense. And I may sue the folks who've taken my money already.

The vast majority of the players and merchants and techs you'll find on here are great people and very professional, so there isn't any need to deal with the local band store that is trying to make a killing off kids, sells at a high list price and has staff that don't know their instruments.

I just wish that I'd known as much about septic systems as trumpets when that whole odyssey started....LOL. I'll get off the soap box and crawl back in my hole now...
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

[BrentD]

No worries! Note: I may have been a bit ambiguous about having already bought it because I didn't want to out any info if I were to immediately return it.

I don't have a lot of experience with horns, so obviously I'm at a disadvantage. The horn has some features of a nicer "pro" horn and some features of a student horn. From my very limited experience, it certainly doesn't look like it's lacquered (mostly because of its very uniform color). But it doesn't make sense that a sub-$1000 horn would get the same treatment as $5k+ horn, and if it were plated then every guy to have had his hands on it would have vouched for it. At least one - my understanding the original retailer - did not.

In any case I knew I'd be out $30 for one month's rental at most, so it was worth the gamble. I'm certainly learning a lot!

[Dennis78]

I just purchased an early 80's Holton Collegiate for $32. Silver plated and in good shape. Deals are there to be had. Rentals suck!
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a few different ones

[GordonH]

Definitely a Weril. I once bought a Weril cornet that had Sterling engraved on it when it came out of the box. No idea what the connection is or why though.
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Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
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[yourbrass]

[oxleyk]

[BrentD]

After your help and some image searching, I'm fairly certain it's a Weril Excalibur in gold brass. Don't know if it's an E971 or an E972, but close enough for me.

Thanks!