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On the right track?



 
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:41 am    Post subject: On the right track? Reply with quote

Here I am again:
Continuing my BE journey today I found something that I would like to have opinions on:
Always, in my very long career as an amateur during gigs/concerts I eventually reach a point where fatigue sets in; nothing uncommon in that of course. But, today it suddenly dawned upon me what might be the cause of this for me at least: bottom lip leaving its place hiding itself under upper lip;
Upon reading the book again ( umpteenth time) I find mr Smiley recommending putting the jaw forward which helps bottom lip regain its proper placement. Then blowing seems easier but also inconvinient - feeling awkward. Should I go on putting jaw forward? Or some other correction would be better??
Could I be on the right track??
Also - I seem to be a "downstream" blower, upper lip a tiny tiny bit protruding in relation to bottom lip - when I blow; puckering is the denotation?? By the Callet typology nr 1. Which is far from "mean old man look".
Complication? Or will I eventually turn into a mean old man chopswise??
Meaning: read on other posts/topics Callet nr 3 perhaps more dedicated to easier high register ( ps thank God not disabling Smilies....may he never..)

Please do not let me sing "oh sole mio"! Every response will be treasured.
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AndrewS
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I learned from BE, is that the most efficient setting is when the air goes straight into the mp's hole.
Having an overbite myself, I found that I need to pout the lower lip more to make lips absolutely vertically aligned, so that the air goes straight in the mp without any impediment.
The funny thing is, it gives access to the upper register with full sound and the lips look like there is no RI going on.
I guess, to find this point of balance takes some BE practice.
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Seymor B Fudd
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 556
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewS wrote:
What I learned from BE, is that the most efficient setting is when the air goes straight into the mp's hole.
Having an overbite myself, I found that I need to pout the lower lip more to make lips absolutely vertically aligned, so that the air goes straight in the mp without any impediment.
The funny thing is, it gives access to the upper register with full sound and the lips look like there is no RI going on.
I guess, to find this point of balance takes some BE practice.


Seems our tracks converge! Judging from that still on the track at least.
Long track though, beginning to suspect it's a bl-y marathon...
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AndrewS
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it's a bl-y marathon


To me it feels more like a leisurely nature walk
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 556
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewS wrote:
Quote:
it's a bl-y marathon


To me it feels more like a leisurely nature walk


Got me there! Tendency to turn something basically exiting into an ordeal I am way down truly exited over the effects of the BE.

But my question, answered by you, still remains with me: downstream blowing, useful for double pedals, should transform itself into neither down or upstream but straight ahead stream blowing!??!
And the tendency to tuck bottom lip in under upper.
Happens when I get tired. As last night, bigband rehearsal 15 songs in a row, high parts, suddenly its there again, whether jaw is put forward or not.
The first 1 1/2 hour was "smashing" compared to my previous (pre BE) standards.
Any tips fixing that? I know, no shortscuts, but maybe me accentuating some parts of the method??

And yes I have read pages 144 and 145! So I realize that my embouchure breaks down. "Trick" c is (presently) utterly impossible. Doing that I associate to limp clamping. "b" also impossible. "a", me constantly thinking of it works better - this notwithstanding I get off that track
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AndrewS
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got exactly the same issue!
And yes, the key for me is to blow straight, not up or down.
I guess what happens when muscles get tired, the weaker muscles try to compensate by using the stronger muscles so the embouchure collapses.
I wish I knew a special exercise to train the lower jaw muscles, I'd do it myself.
My guess is the RO exercise activates the lower muscles quite well, so I'd concentrate on this one more, but it's only my guess.
(Sometimes I do RO till the jaw aches to achieve the benefit)
My gut feeling also tells me that the snaps also help keep the lips aligned, since it's hard to snap notes when lips are out of balance/alignment.
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Seymor B Fudd
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Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewS wrote:
I got exactly the same issue!
And yes, the key for me is to blow straight, not up or down.
I guess what happens when muscles get tired, the weaker muscles try to compensate by using the stronger muscles so the embouchure collapses.
I wish I knew a special exercise to train the lower jaw muscles, I'd do it myself.
My guess is the RO exercise activates the lower muscles quite well, so I'd concentrate on this one more, but it's only my guess.
(Sometimes I do RO till the jaw aches to achieve the benefit)
My gut feeling also tells me that the snaps also help keep the lips aligned, since it's hard to snap notes when lips are out of balance/alignment.


Ah! Nice to recognize you' re not the only one! Yes the Ro:s do so many good things!
Well, put the anglo-saxian way, "always looking at the bright side" : now I know what brought me down, it was not me legs buckling, it was me bl-y bottom lip. The bottom lip syndrom.
By the way found on most little sad/angry children, you know bottom lip curling up over upper!
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AndrewS
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By the way found on most little sad/angry children, you know bottom lip curling up over upper!


Yes, there is a potential trumpet player in every sad and angry child!

Sometimes I look at a person's perfect embouchure (no over/under bite, no PTL) and think how effortless and nice his/her trumpet career would be, only if they put the blooming instrument to their lips, what a wasted life!
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Seymor B Fudd
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2016 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewS wrote:
Quote:
By the way found on most little sad/angry children, you know bottom lip curling up over upper!


Yes, there is a potential trumpet player in every sad and angry child!

Sometimes I look at a person's perfect embouchure (no over/under bite, no PTL) and think how effortless and nice his/her trumpet career would be, only if they put the blooming instrument to their lips, what a wasted life!



Yeah know what your' re talking about...I know some blessed people in bands...especially one guy: arrives late to a rehearsal "sorry being late couldn't find my horn, havent used it for some 4 weeks now". Then goes on playing high G:s low F# just like that.
And us poor fellows having to practise practise practise. "Didn't you spend much time practising today eh". Not that uncommon sentence from someone close (or wanting to be) to you
Anyhow life's a project...yesterday I touched a high F.
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AndrewS
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Anyhow life's a project...yesterday I touched a high F


Congrats on the new achievement!
I know how it feels when the high range opens up, when forces of nature start to work for you and not against you.
My BE journey is a bit bumpy. I could hit high notes withing a first year or doing BE, but the lower range was stuffy. Then I lost upper range but gained some agility in the mid range. When I consciously started to play on the left side of my PTL, the blowing started to feel more open and the sound more resonant, but it took some time to get used to it. Then high notes started to emerge with much less effort and more full and open sound...
Anyway, it's a bumpy road to me but I take it as a challenge!
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Seymor B Fudd
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Joined: 17 Oct 2015
Posts: 556
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewS wrote:
Quote:
Anyhow life's a project...yesterday I touched a high F


Congrats on the new achievement!
I know how it feels when the high range opens up, when forces of nature start to work for you and not against you.
My BE journey is a bit bumpy. I could hit high notes withing a first year or doing BE, but the lower range was stuffy. Then I lost upper range but gained some agility in the mid range. When I consciously started to play on the left side of my PTL, the blowing started to feel more open and the sound more resonant, but it took some time to get used to it. Then high notes started to emerge with much less effort and more full and open sound...
Anyway, it's a bumpy road to me but I take it as a challenge!



Sure is bumpy Today not even close to that F. But the E:s on drills nr 12-14 seem to become more and more possible.
Probably daily variations so far. I donŽt seem to have cracked that high-register code...yet. Well someday IŽll get the answer. Or not.
To me the roll outs came rather easy - I have difficulties with the snaps though.
But as you so eloquently express it: a challenge! Or as written in an old
swing-classic: Sock it!
_________________
Cornets:
Getzen Custom Series Denis Wick Ultra 7C
Getzen 300 series
Yamaha YCRD2330II
Getzen Eterna Eb /M V 1 1/2 C
Trumpets:
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King Super 20 Symphony DB (1970)DW Ultra 7C
Selmer Eb/D trumpet (1973)/Stork VMS6
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AndrewS
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Posts: 120
Location: Richmond Hill

PostPosted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Sock it!


Yep. That's pretty much what I say to myself. Sock it up and play!
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