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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:41 am Post subject: DEG Signature Piccolo Owners |
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Hello, everyone; I'm here to ask for some assistance:
I recently purchased one of these after a long search. However, when it arrived, I discovered the adjustable receiver on the first valve was missing and the bell was soldered directly to the valve body, although the screw rail and setscrew on the upper portion of the bell is still there.. It also came with only one lead pipe; I'm not sure if that was stock or if it came with a separate A pipe.
Might I ask that someone who owns an unaltered example PM me and take some photos and/or measurements so I can have my horn returned to the original design? I will ask my tech to check the Allied catalogue to see it the parts are available, but I have little hope of this.
Mr. Scodwell or Mr. Becker; if you happen to see this, I wonder if you might care to take on this project. The horn seems to be in good shape otherwise, save a good valve alignment...
Thank so much,
Ben |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 11:59 am Post subject: |
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Where did you find one of these? I've been looking for a while, as well. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I actually contacted someone who had posted in a previous thread... |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Hello Ben, I haven't seen one of these in years but I think I can help.
We have some DEG compatible tuning bell rails/channels on hand and the capacity to fabricate a custom A pipe for your trumpet. And of course perform a precision valve alignment too.
We look forward to hearing from you. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:49 am Post subject: |
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Done and done!
Ben |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: DEG Piccolo |
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Hello Ben. I'm traveling in the mid-west at the moment and will return in a week and a half. Of course I'm familiar with the piccolo you have, having designed it for DEG in 1988. I could easily return it to original condition with the tuning bell configuration and I think I have a stock A pipe in stock. Allied will not have the needed parts and to be honest, the original Bb and A pipes didn't work as well as the pipes I put together. I have those in my shop and would gladly let you have them. Whatever work I would do for you would be very reasonable and email me if you want to proceed. You can easily reach me throughly website listed here.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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James Becker Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005 Posts: 2827 Location: Littleton, MA
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Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:59 am Post subject: Re: DEG Piccolo |
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FWIW as a result of the acquisition of the Getzen Co. in 1992 by the Getzen family, many DEG Signature and marching brass components (manufactured by Allied Music) found their way into Getzen Co. offerings. Of these, the Signature tuning bell channels/rails/clamps are found on Getzen tuning bell trumpets (page 132 of the Allied Supply parts catalog).
I hope this is helpful. _________________ James Becker
Brass Repair Specialist Since 1977
Osmun Music Inc.
77 Powdermill Road Rt.62
Acton, MA 01720
www.osmun.com
Our workshop is as close as your nearest UPS store https://www.ups.com/dropoff?loc=en_US |
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Lawler Bb Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Jan 2002 Posts: 1140 Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I just picked up one of these neat little horns as well. So far so good, but I also only have one pipe (Bb). Other than Mr. Scodwell, does anyone know of a source for leadpipes? Does Blackburn make pipes for these horns? My Benge Blackburn pipes are a touch too small.
Another observation - most people have to adopt a new hand position to hold a piccolo versus a larger trumpet. Holding my Benge picc is really straightforward, but the DEG takes some creativity, especially if you want to make use of the 3rd valve ring. _________________ Eric Sperry
www.ericsperry.com
www.facebook.com/EricSperryTrumpet/
www.instagram.com/milwaukeetrumpet/ |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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Eric,
I had Osmun make a set of Bb and A pipes, so they should have the specs on file...
HTH
Ben |
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patdublc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jun 2006 Posts: 1050 Location: Salisbury, MD
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Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Lawler Bb wrote: | Other than Mr. Scodwell, does anyone know of a source for leadpipes? Does Blackburn make pipes for these horns? |
I know that Blackburn did custom fabricate one pipe for one of these horns but I doubt they ever made it a standard offering. Check with Eric at Pickett/Blackburn to find out more.
They are great horns but there aren't that many of them out there.
I'm quite sure that either Tony or Jim Becker would hook you up just fine. _________________ Pat Shaner
Play Wedge Mouthpieces by Dr. Dave exclusively.
Experiment with LOTS of horn makes and models. |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:12 am Post subject: DEG Signature piccolos |
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As only 150 of these fine horns were ever produced it is unlikely one may come up for sale. Blackburn never made lead pipes for them as far as I know and James Becker is probably the best source to have anything made at this point. When the little horn made its "debut" at the ITG no less than William Vacchiano picked one up and hand wrote a letter to Don Getzen (DEG owner) asking to endorse it and would recommend them to all his students. By the way, he also commented on the offset fourth valve which made holding the horn superior to others facilitating use of the fourth valve with the right hand. Over the years I've worked on a few of these and you can order a current Getzen bell from their four valve model and easily convert it to tunable bell with the rail hardware mentioned by James Becker. The bell is the same as the one DEG used. Valves were from Bauerfeind and can be purchased today from Adam who now own Bauerfeind.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:17 am Post subject: |
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Bringing back this thread, as I recently came into a DEG four-valve piccolo, which I purchased at a very fair price from Dillon Music. So far, I've only really gotten to know the A side, as I wasn't expecting the Bb shank only to accept cornet mouthpieces. But, thanks to this thread, I contacted Pickett/Blackburn for their aftermarket pipe.
Another wonderful example of Tony Scodwell's superior designs, I find this horn captures some of the best qualities of the vintage sound (selmer) with excellent scale and play-ability of modern horns, and a surprisingly free upper register, with excellent slots on high G, Ab, A, Bb, B, and ('double') C. Can't wait to get a trumpet-shanked Bb leadpipe to really get to know that side of the horn. Additionally, the ability to dial-in the horn with a little bit of tuning at the leadpipe and a little bit at the bell is a revelation!
More to follow,
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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ProAm Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Feb 2008 Posts: 949
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:16 am Post subject: |
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I have a 3-valve DEG. I wonder if anyone has fabricated/added a rotary valve 3rd slide like some Yamahas use to this model? |
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Danbassin Veteran Member
Joined: 13 Oct 2013 Posts: 460 Location: Idyllwild, CA
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Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 8:25 am Post subject: |
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ProAm wrote: | I have a 3-valve DEG. I wonder if anyone has fabricated/added a rotary valve 3rd slide like some Yamahas use to this model? |
Very cool - I saw one of these for sale a little while and nearly pulled the trigger. I'm sure many pro repair techs could fabricate one, and James Becker of Osmun Music has previously worked on these instruments, so he may be one to check on: https://osmunmusic.fullslate.com/
Ivan Hunter, of Jaeger Brass also regularly offers 3rd slide extensions for all brands and keys of horn: http://www.jaegerbrass.com/services/modification.html
Good luck with those low 'F's!
-DB _________________ Daniel Bassin
Conductor/Composer/Trumpeter/Improviser/Educator
I play:
Monette - CORNETTE/PranaXLT-STC Bb/MC-35/Raja A Piccolo;
Kromat C-Piccolo; Thein G-Piccolo; Various antique horns
MPCs - Monette Unity 1-7D and DM4LD |
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Tony Scodwell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 1961
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:26 am Post subject: DEG Bb Piccolo pipe |
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Thank you Daniel for your kind comments. The Bb and A pipes were always made for a trumpet shank. Perhaps the horn you just acquired had a Bb pipe someone had made independently. In hindsight, my experience with all pics was to prefer cornet receivers over the trumpet receivers and perhaps I should've lobbied DEG to supply pipes with both receivers for the piccolo.
Tony Scodwell
www.scodwellusa.com |
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benlewis Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Jan 2004 Posts: 1011 Location: Memphis, TN
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Posted: Wed May 23, 2018 8:39 am Post subject: |
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It's possible Dan has acquired the one I had repaired at Osmun with input from Mr. Scodwell. I believe I had an Osmun pipe made at the same time for cornet shank. When I received it, the tuning bell parts had been removed and it was a fixed bell. After the horn was returned to it's original configuration, it was a very nice horn, but was not a good fit for me, so I passed it on...
Ben |
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ayryq Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 354 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Hope it's alright to post to an old thread. Pictured are the three leadpipes that came with my DEG Signature 2000. Top two are Bb, appear to be identical, and are unmarked. The bottom one is in A, marked "Louisville Leadpipe" with a "G" in the fish tail.
Are any of these original to the horn? The "A" leadpipe plays very well; I'm sorry to say I neither practice nor perform often on the Bb leadpipe(s) so I can't comment much on them, but the person from whom I bought the instrument indicated that the Bb leadpipes were inferior.
Blackburn lists "DEG" as one of the options for his P4 leadpipe, along with Yamaha and B&S.
I also notice the Benge 7E mouthpiece doesn't seat as far into the Bb leadpipes as it does in the A pipe. (you can see the insertion marks in the picture).
I appreciate any information or advice. Thanks!
_________________ Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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Joel Payne Regular Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 36 Location: Cincinnati Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject: DEG Signature picc |
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Interesting thread. BTW, I do have one of these available if anyone is currently searching for one (lacquer, both Bb and A leadpipes), Too many horns, too little time...… joel.payne@zoomtown.com or text at 513 751 7062 _________________ Joel Payne |
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ayryq Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Feb 2019 Posts: 354 Location: Rochester, NY
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:10 pm Post subject: Re: DEG Signature picc |
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Joel Payne wrote: | Interesting thread. BTW, I do have one of these available if anyone is currently searching for one (lacquer, both Bb and A leadpipes), Too many horns, too little time...… joel.payne@zoomtown.com or text at 513 751 7062 |
Joel, does your Bb leadpipe look like mine? _________________ Yamaha YTR6345HGS Bb
Bach "Philly" C
Bach 239 Eb/D
DEG Signature 2000 Bb/A picc
Yamaha YTR-9835 Bb/A picc
Yamaha Bobby Shew flugel
Yamaha Neo cornet
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Joel Payne Regular Member
Joined: 27 Sep 2009 Posts: 36 Location: Cincinnati Ohio
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: DEG Signature picc |
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Yes, my Bb pipe looks the same as yours.
My A pipe looks identical in design to my Bb pipe, just longer. _________________ Joel Payne |
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