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3D Printed Mouthpiece???


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Bryant Jordan
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject: 3D Printed Mouthpiece??? Reply with quote

Hi all. Just wondering, has anybody tried 3D printing a mouthpiece? If so, please share your thoughts and experience. Any comments or thoughts welcome.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plastic mouthpieces are inferior to brass mouthpieces, I wouldn't expect a printed MP to be anything but an interesting experiment.

The only plastic trumpet I've heard that sounded worse than any of the injection-molded plastic trumpets was a printed trumpet.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Mouthpiece 3D printing was already discussed Reply with quote

Mouthpiece 3D printing was already posted about in February:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=136946&highlight=printing
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aaron_edwa
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:20 am    Post subject: Plastic Mouthpieces Reply with quote

It depends on what you're playing, or if you're inside or outside. I like some plastic mouthpieces when I'm outside playing, and it's 5 degrees out. Also, in jazz, I sometimes like using plastic mouthpieces, because it makes a much brighter tone than a metal one.
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ruotjoh
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with 3D printed mouthpieces is not the material but tolerances. There are plenty of plastic mouthpieces in the market and some people like them a lot. AFAIK you can't produce constant results with 3D printer that would meet the requirements of industry standard (.0002). Some manufacturers can get even better tolerances with modern cnc machines.
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert P wrote:
Plastic mouthpieces are inferior to brass mouthpieces, I wouldn't expect a printed MP to be anything but an interesting experiment.


That's what I told Bobby Shew on a gig where he was featured with our band. And, then he proceeded to plaster a double high D at the end of the tune.

Actually, I didn't say that to Bobby because a) he doesn't need any hints from me, b) it works for him, and c) I respect his choices.

So, to be clear, I'm just being funny here.

Personally speaking, I don't get the same quality of sound from a plastic mouthpiece so I don't use them. Even had a couple custom made to match brass pieces.

But, as someone else posted, lots of people have 3D printed mouthpieces. I like the idea but I don't think the technology goes, the accuracy isn't there yet. Some day, it will be and I think that could be a lot of fun.
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Robert P
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
Robert P wrote:
Plastic mouthpieces are inferior to brass mouthpieces, I wouldn't expect a printed MP to be anything but an interesting experiment.


That's what I told Bobby Shew on a gig where he was featured with our band. And, then he proceeded to plaster a double high D at the end of the tune.

I'd be curious to hear Bobby's tone in the mid/lower range on a plastic mp in person. I have one of those clear Kelly mp's - I find it sounds like crap compared to a brass mp. I don't like the feedback from it either. Does any classical soloist or even section player use a plastic mp for serious, paid concert work?
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patdublc
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robert - I don't sound good on the plastic pieces either, but Bobby sounds wonderful. He did mention that the over tones are all different and it takes a bit of a different approach. But, his tone is warm and beautiful when he wants it to be and screaming when he wants it to be. He's really just amazing on anything he plays.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Does any classical soloist or even section player use a plastic mp for serious, paid concert work?


Interesting to see the white plastic looking MP played here (at 2:09) by Philip Cobb:


Link
[/quote]
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Michael Greenberg

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Mouthpiece: Schilke Soloiste MG1
(Marc Geujon) gold plated
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sustained note wrote:
Quote:
Does any classical soloist or even section player use a plastic mp for serious, paid concert work?


Interesting to see the white plastic looking MP played here (at 2:09) by Philip Cobb:


Hard to tell, but looks like a White plastic (probably Delrin) top on a metal backbore to me...
Could well be a Warburton blank?
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grune
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patdublc wrote:
Robert - I don't sound good on the plastic pieces either, but Bobby sounds wonderful. He did mention that the over tones are all different and it takes a bit of a different approach. But, his tone is warm and beautiful when he wants it to be and screaming when he wants it to be. He's really just amazing on anything he plays.


DIY 3D tech and materials are insufficient for the precision required. Definitely, material density is a big factor, and current plastics are much too low in density. The tech and plastics might improve over time.
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CJceltics33
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played a 3D printed mouthpiece and it sounded quite good actually. Big sound with core. Was about a Bach 1.5C. Unfortunately the maker was not a trumpet player, and the rim is completely flat, so it isn’t practical.
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The referenced post above was about my experiments. With a lot of work on refining the model to take into account shrinkage and using the metal dust/plastic mixes such as Bronzefill you can get some perfectly playable mouthpieces. Its also great for experimenting with new designs, I have about 100 different designs I tried.

As mentioned above the overtones are different. You can put a brass collar on a 3D printed mouthpiece to get it sounding more like a regular mouthpiece.

Overall I think a 3D printer today is a fantastic tool for mouthpiece design experiments, although there is a learning curve on many fronts.
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boog
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to have a 3d printer, but I could not justify the cost at this time. It would be nice to print a small bracket or attachment for a project. As far as a mouthpiece, I dunno...

I have a Kelly 1.5 c (in Red Hot!!!) Sometimes I put it in my pocket to carry when I am going to be away from the house for a while, to buzz, ya know...

I also have a Delrin ACB 3C top that is quite good, both in feel and tone. I carry it in my pocket when I am going to be gone a few days to buzz and keep my chops up. It doesn't get scratched up with keys, pocket junk, etc.

Right now, I am immersed in Euphonium performance, and neglecting my trumpet chops...I am considering buying a Kelly for my Euph...for the same reasons as I said...

A 3d printer would be an interesting toy.
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grune
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree: for experiments, a 3D printer is perhaps one of the best tools ever invented. Virtually any design can be made and played to make a sound of sorts. But if the goal is a sound quality similar to the best m/p's today, the result will be limited by the material used, and current materials are not suitable. I know for a fact, companies like Yamaha have spent +40 years experimenting with designs and materials of all conceivable limits, only to conclude brass remains the best material for the m/p's and trumpets.
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plp
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sustained note wrote:
Quote:
Does any classical soloist or even section player use a plastic mp for serious, paid concert work?


Interesting to see the white plastic looking MP played here (at 2:09) by Philip Cobb:


Link
[/quote]

Looks like a Warburton Delrin top.
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plp
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 3D printed mouthpiece save my butt at the Mardis Gras parade, was 35°, with the tuning slide all the way in was still flat.

A friend of mine had found a template for a CKB 7E, he had printed out. He gave it to me to try, had to use some extra fine grit sandpaper on the rim to smooth it out, and a touchup with a 27 bore file to get the buzzy tone out of it.

I had also brought a Delrin Warburton 6XD top on a 8* backbore, felt fine but was also way flat.

I don't play anything as big as a 7 rim normally, but knowing how cold it was going to be, stuck it in my pocket anyway, just in case.

As an act of final desperation, pulled it out and plugged it in, and had to pull out the slide a bit on the cold horn to play in tune. It was way comfy all night, and saved my bacon. Another of our players just quit playing, could not get his honking huge 16C4 lipped up enough to play in tune.
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Brassnose
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it is possible to 3D print metals and ceramics by now as well ... Cost of the equipment is way beyond what I could afford privately.
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scottfsmith
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can pay contractors to do it though .. there is something called a metal sintering printer for example which can print in various metals (by fusing dust with a laser if I recall). I got excited about this and got a quote from one of them .. unfortunately it would have cost a grand for one mouthpiece print. Ah well.. I am hoping one day these will be $20 a print.

Re: materials, the mouthpieces coming off a 3D printer can be very musical players if they are well-designed. Its just that they will have a different sound profile than what the standard is. So, they are bad only in the sense that your sound will not be the usual one.

Also I have heard that some leading mouthpiece makers are getting promising results with other materials in experimental designs; there is nothing sacred about brass.
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Betelgeuse215
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Made one out of PLA a a few years ago. It was a fun toy more than anything. No practical use. Watching it print was a lot of fun.
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