Besson Prestige Cornet

[GordonH]

Well, I came into some money and decided to buy a new cornet. In fact it was my wife's idea as the money had come from the sale of some shares that were part of my dad's estate. His dad was a cornet player in the Salvation Army and his uncle was quite a well known soloist of the 1930's. Instrument prices are rising and I knew I would change cornet in the next year so this was the time to do it.

I had a look at the Yamaha Neo and the Prestige. The Neo played very easily, but had less character in the tone and it felt like it might be quite a hard blow in the long term as I play on more open mouthpieces. On balance I decided that the Prestige was the way to go so I bought one and am working through the acclimatisation process.

These are my initial feelings in comparison to my Maestro:

Prestige is more open in the lower register.
Requires less effort when playing complex passages. The notes feel closer together effort wise and this is proving to be the biggest acclimatisation issue.
Less tiring to play on.
Very nice tone. Typically Besson.
It feels more similar to the original Sovereign than the 928.
I videoed a tuner while I was playing a scale looking away from it and the intonation was spot on to a G above the stave. A2 needs a small amount of trigger. Bottom C# and D require a little, but less than the Yamaha. A3 needs more trigger than the Yamaha. It gets slightly sharper above the stave, but nothing abnormal.
It is a German made one and the construction quality is very good.
The main tuning slide trigger makes some passages different to play. For example if you play E1 to G you have to get the slide back in between the notes. With a first valve trigger there is less hurry needed getting the slide back in as it can't affect the G. This will take some getting used to.

One issue I did have is the alternative heavy caps. I tried them and it made the instrument feel like the Yamaha but a bit too solid. I messaged a friend who plays a Prestige to ask which ones he was using and he said that he had never tried the heavy ones. So I emailed Roger Webster's and asked him. Within an hour I had a reply. Roger had to look at his cornet to remember which set he was using and it turned out to be the lighter ones. His advice was to go with my first instinct because people who have experimented seem to always end up back at that original choice.

Once I am fully familiar with the instrument I will do some recordings, but I do know that people have remarked on the improvement already. Even if they have not known it was a different instrument.

It was hard not to buy the Neo. It just didn't provide me with the support I wanted or fit my sound concept. It does feel like going over to the dark side, but it's how things worked out.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[dstdenis]

Thanks for this interesting report. Are you able to use the same mouthpiece you've been using, or do you expect you might need a slightly different configuration to get the best match for you and the Prestige?

I recall you wrote that you're looking for an instrument that would make it easier to play with more volume and projection. How would you compare the Prestige to the Neo and your Maestro in that regard?

Lacquer or silver plate?

Interesting point about how the thumb trigger moves the main tuning slide instead of the first valve slide. Made me realize that I sometimes leave a slide out when I know the passage will return to a note that needs it. I guess the Prestige mechanism should work fine once you acclimate as long as it's easy to move quickly.

Congrats on the new instrument! Not the dark side if it works well for you.
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Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[GordonH]

[Louise Finch]

[p76]

Do please keep us updated with how you go on the Prestige, I understand what you mean about it being quite different to the Yamahas in the way it plays, but they do have that lovely Besson sound, and I imagine it would be hard to overblow one.

The trigger on the main slide will take some getting used to - downside is having to move it back as you said, upside is you can adjust your tuning as you get tired during a piece, or if you need to match another instrument in a duo passage and they are a bit off.

And they look beautiful too!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[dmamazon]

Gordon,
Congratulations on the new horn! I lurk and watch your posts with great interest! Oh...what I wouldn't give to replace my silver turd(a late 90s lottery Besson Sovereign 928..ugh). I cannot wait to see you post a video on your new horn! I wish to purchase a Prestige in the future...and am happy you were able to do so!
My 928 Sovereign has just a beautiful sound...but you can definitely tell that there is a major manufacturing defect somewhere. I have brought it to the local shops and the only thing they have done that helped is they completely disassembled/reassembled the mouthpipe and receiver....they had found that in it's original assembly the mouthpipe end was "crunched down" and created quite large "ridge"...which is still there but much less so now. I am convinced that either the rotational alignment of one of the valves is off OR the mouthpipe/receiver just needs completely replaced!
I plan to play test a few of the Besson Prestige Cornets...if they have them...at Brass in Concert in Sage Gateshead. My band will be playing and competing(if you can call it that!) as the lone U.S. band(the Dublin Silver Band from Dublin, Ohio..U.S. lol). Maybe I will be able to convince the wife(we both are in the front row..I principal and her 3rd chair solo..she plays my old beautiful Getzen 3850 Copper Bell) to let me make a purchase lol!
Did you experiment with the "tone ring" that you can attach to the 3rd valve at all? I saw that as an option but was leery.
Anyway, cheers on the new axe! I am very envious!!!

Dave Mazon

Dave Mazon

[GordonH]

Hello Dave,

Good that you are getting over here for that contest. You will hear a lot of good bands. Quite a lot of our locals here drive down for a day out to hear the bands.

That defect in your instrument is one I have heard of before. By that stage a lot of the work was assembly work of parts made in Germany and the people doing it had very limited skills.

I did have a Denis Wick Tone Ring. Its a way of adding weight to the third valve without adding a heavy cap (which would stop the instrument fitting in the case). The Prestige comes with heavy valve caps, but I have not found them to be a help.

As far as a video is concerned I hope to do part of it tomorrow. I am going to boroscope the leadpipe to show how the receiver fits to the leadpipe. There is a definite join but it is way below where the morse taper finishes.

You might find that you prefer the Yamaha Neo. The thing I like about the Prestige and the older Sovereigns and the Maestro is the resistance, which as you blow suddenly gives way and allows a brighter tone to "bloom" on the notes. That is the best way I can describe it. The 928 did not have as much of this and neither does the Neo or Xeno. One of the big features of the Prestige is the great tone in the lower register and at low dynamics. It really does this well. I was playing with a band last night and it was quite noticeable. Also, the very easy articulation.

The pound has lost a lot of value so anything you can pick up here will be cheaper.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[stumac]

My experience with Besson Sovereign and Prestige.

I last played cornet in a brass band in 1949, playing trumpet for the last 30 years.

A friend bought an almost new Besson Prestige english made, he felt there was something wrong with it, his teacher thought the same, but as he was off to England to live the next day was unable to research it further. He then bought a Sovereign of a similar age and condition that played so much better. He gave me the two instruments to see If I could find the difference. I had just set up an audio spectrum analyzer. There was a significant difference between the two.,

Both instruments the valve vertical alignment was further out than I find acceptable this was corrected but the problem was still there.

Further examination revealed that the heavy caps had been fitted to all 3 valves, replacing with original the 2 were identical.

Examining with a borescope showed a significant radial mis-alignment of the exit port of the first valve to the bell, both instruments were the the same. other ports fine.

My friend put the Prestige up for sale, a player from Sydney drove 1200km to Melbourne and bought it on the spot saying it was the best one he has played. I now have his sovereign, he has his ex teacher's worked over Benge.

Regards, Stuart.

[GordonH]

Can't comment as mine does not have any of these issues. It is much more nimble than any sovereign I have played.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[GordonH]

Just thought I should update this as it shows how badly Besson's reputation has been damaged by the old Boosey and Hawkes.

My Prestige cornet appeared to be OK, but there was a stay that didn't look quite right and a gap under one of them. Then when I was playing something suddenly felt "not right". I felt something loose and assumed it was a trigger screw. It turned out that the stay from the bell to the leadpipe had come adrift. I reported this to the dealer and they replaced it the next day. It appears that it was likely transit damage somewhere in the supply chain as one of the other stays was buckled. The new one is fine and doesn't seem to have any faults.

However, my brass band friends have universally greeted this news with "Besson build quality is crap" or similar. Interesting, as it was damage rather than a manufacturing fault. Anyway, it shows how badly Besson's reputation was damaged by poor manufacturing in later years.

I was doing a full review video when this happened and I am not sure how to proceed with it. I don't feel I can criticise Besson as they authorised a warranty replacement to the dealer and it was all fine within 24 hours. There is probably some courier to blame for the issues.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[p76]

Hi Gordon,

It is interesting isn't it - it doesn't take long to wreck a reputation, but it can take a lifetime to get it back again. Once the reputation is blown, any issue in future gets roped in and added to the "evidence" that a brand is dodgy.

Another issue that may be "interesting" for Besson (and other horn makers) to manage is having different level horns built in different countries - Besson make high end horns in France (and Germany?), but low end horns in India.

Ensuring quality is even across these different manufacturing bases would be a bit of a headache, and becomes even more problematic given the reputation that Besson has been left with.

I guess the question I'd be asking is, if the damage occurred in transit, why didn't the dealer pick it up?

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[GordonH]

Yes, although Boosey and Hawkes made instruments in Malta for a long time and also sold rebadged Amati instruments. They then opened a factory in India.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Louise Finch]

[GordonH]

To clarify, it happened in transit between the dealer and me so the dealer appears to be blameless in this regard. Its hard to be definitive, but this does look the most likely under the circumstances as it seemed to be damage from shock rather than direct impact, and they definitely had checked it prior to dispatch.

The damaged one actually played fine, until the moment when it came apart.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Andy Del]

Ah, so was the horn intact when you received it, yet later on one of the stays popped?

If this is the case, it speaks volumes about the build methodology, QC of parts, and overall care factor from Besson (whoever they are these days)...
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so many horns, so few good notes...

[Louise Finch]

[GordonH]

Seems fine, although i am still acclimatising. Just agreed to play on a recording at beginning of December so need to get fully in gear. Three days in the studio.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Louise Finch]

[SirBuzzALot]

[GordonH]