Smaller 3C

[Martinharris]

Ok Thankyou,
I have decided that I want to buy an old vintage Bach 3C around the 1960's era. I don't see any on eBay so if anyone can direct me to somewhere/someone I can buy one from that would be great!
Thanks for the help 😊

[Louise Finch]

[Martinharris]

Too complicated, I don't know how to do that

[Louise Finch]

[Louise Finch]

[iiipopes]

If the OP wants a 3c-ish cup geometry, but a slightly narrower i.d. at the rim, then I suggest a 7D. I have a 3C, a Yammy Shew Jazz, a 7D, and a 10 1/2 D. They all feel very similar in cup depth and geometry, but varying in i.d. at the rim. Yes, there are those who criticize the Kanstul Comparator, but I find it to be very close, having compared actual examples.

Everyone must remember that the 3C cup is about the shallowest of all of the Bach C cups, more like the rest of Bach's D cups (except, of course, the 3D), and that is why it has broad appeal across genres and playing styles.
_________________
King Super 20 Trumpet; Sov 921 Cornet
Bach cornet modded to be a 181L clone
Couesnon Flugelhorn and C trumpet

[Robert Rizzo]

Monette B6S1 - narrower than a Bach 3C with a round rim contour and rich sound

Monette B4S is a copy of an old Bach 3C. It has a sharper rim contour than a B6S1.

The B6S1 is narrower than the B4S
_________________
Robert Rizzo

[GordonH]

[McVouty]

Hi Martin - I think I know what you're looking for - even if I cant suggest the mouthpiece that fits your description exactly (3C but slightly smaller diameter), as I'm on a similar search!

Just to clarify a few points - the mouthpieces based on the Mount Vernon 3C (Horntrader, Curr, Arturo) - have a wider flatter rim with less 'bite' than the modern 3C. While this does mean more comfort/endurance I just don't like the feel from a flexibility/articulation point of view and they all feel slightly wider too (Horntrader not so much). I have all the warburton 4 series tops from MD to SV and while they all work to a certain extent I just don't find them as versatile as the Bach 3C - again rims are just a bit too flat. Somebody mentioned the Arturo top, but I wouldn't recommend that as it certainly felt closer to a 1 1/4C to me and a lot bigger than my Bach 3C.

So, the bottom line is that at the moment I'm actually playing a Bach 5C - I quite like the rim (more rounded than 3C) but its deeper than the 3C so not as responsive when playing in big band.

I've just bought a second hand 14B4 for next to nothing so look forward to giving that a try. I would also like to try Reeves - maybe the 42 rim - but really hard to get hold of this side of the pond.

Based upon what everyone has said so far, looks like a 14C4 might give you what you need for legit playing - definitely worth a go for not much money. Might try one myself if I like the 14B4!!

Cheers

Carl

[McVouty]

One final thing - there seems to be a lot of mythology surrounding the vintage Mount Vernon 3C mouthpieces as being the holy grail (probably because Arturo plays one) - so when they do come up on ebay you'll be surprised at the high price they go for! Better to be sure its what you want before you end up in a bidding war for one!!!!!

[Martinharris]

Hi carl,
Just a heads up about the reeves 42 rim... it's really quite narrow, similar to my Bach 10.5EW rim. I think you might like the Yamaha 14B4 but not the 14C4.
I'' just looking for an older Bach 3C now

[cheiden]

[jadickson]

I don't know if it has already been mentioned, but James R New, Who used to be the mouthpiece maker at Kanstul, now produces his own line of mouthpieces. The M cup and S rim were scanned from Arturo Sandoval's 3C and you can order it in any diameter you want. Apparently .650" is the original size, sits about like a Curry 3C, so maybe try .640"?

The S backbore was also scan from Arturo Sandoval's 3C.

Dig: http://james-r-new.com/mouthpieces/james-r-new-one-piece-mouth.html

I hope this helps.
_________________
Justin Dickson
Middle school band director. Still learning.
www.BandmateTuner.com

[chuck in ny]

i think the curry 3C. 'dot' piece is smaller than a bach 3C. curry pieces play a tad nicer than bach pieces and are readily available at mid prices.

[McVouty]

[Louise Finch]

Hi

Mike Prestage on this forum emailed me the following regarding my 3C (Mike I trust that you don't mind me sharing this):

I would say that your 3C rim feels a similar diameter to a 'typical' 1 1/2C. I was surprised at how big it actually measured up but I happen to have a 3C that I took in a trade and that one measures even larger! I've just asked the original owner and they confirmed that they bought it new last year. That doesn't necessarily mean that if you bought another new one now it would be the same - personally I haven't seen enough specimens of the recent production to make up my mind on whether they're reasonably consistent or not. If you want a consistently made mouthpiece with a rim that should feel fairly close to your 3C, the Yamaha 16C4 might be a good bet. They're also very reasonably priced from Yamaha's London outlet.

When I bought my Yamaha Xeno II trumpet, it was supplied with a Yamaha 16C4. I've also ended up with a Yamaha 14B4 cornet mouthpiece, which I accepted in trade from a local band master who wanted my Bach 1 1/2C cornet mouthpiece for one of his cornet section. I've never even tried this 14B4.

Reading this thread, I decided to check how the 16C4 and 14B4 felt on the embouchure to my Bach 3C (I only set as if I was about to play and didn't actually play any of the mouthpieces). Despite Mike Prestage's recommendation of a 16C4, which probably more closely matches the actual diameter of my mouthpiece, to me, the 14B4 felt a lot more like my 3C than did the 16C4. Yes, the 14B4 did feel a little smaller, but it felt like a 3C. The rim of the 16C4 felt different to me. I can't really describe it in words (especially since it was a couple of weeks ago), but it felt maybe more rounder with a sharper bite, and either the bite or highpoint of the rim a little further out. Maybe it was just the difference in alpha angle I was feeling combined with a slightly larger cup diameter. My conclusion is that the Yamaha 14B4 feels like a smaller variant 3C to me.

I really hope that this will help someone.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Martinharris]

The only reason I can't just get a Yamaha 14b4 is because I had that mouthpiece scanned at kanstul and turns out the rim is even more soft bite than the curry 3. And the high point is on the inside which I don't like.
So I'm looking for a Yamaha 14b4 which isn't a Yamaha 14b4

[RussellDDixon]

[Louise Finch]

[cheiden]