Smaller 3C

Mark Bradley · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject:

John said: "Not to complicate things, but I think an equally good idea is to try James New's S4M cup with his S backbore."

As you can see from my gearhead list I've been playing Jim New's S4S with his #9 bore, which he said is comparable to Reeves 69 bore. Jim is making some great stuff, this is a fantastic set up. I ended up with the S4S because I asked Jim what would be similar to the GR 65S I was playing at the time and not entirely satisfied with. He said it S4 rim is very close to the GR 65 rim according to his diagrams (slightly different shape however). So I hate to throw a monkey wrench in the gear box but I think of the S4S as a moderately shallow 7C, not 3. It's true that the S4S rim is close to the Schilke M3C but the M3C seems ever so slightly larger but it also has a little different rim contour so caliper measurements probably wouldn't prove much. The M3C also has a pretty good sized C cup so that changes the feel as well compared to Jim's S cup (which is moderate and has a nice sound). Based off this info. I'd "assume" Jim's S5M would be closest what most of has had experience with concerning the traditional 3C rather than the S4. Not that this would make the S4 rim a bad thing at all, but indeed a 3C drifting to the "smaller side" (or 7c drifting bigger) and that's what many of us including the original poster is looking for.
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cheiden · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:24 pm Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject:

Louise Finch · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:32 am Post subject:

McVouty · Veteran Member Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 149

Wow, who knew a simple question could throw up so many possibilities

Just to get back to the original "exactly like 3C but smaller" question - I think the nearest I have come across are the Yamaha 14 series. I've just got myself nearly the entire range 14C4, 14B4, 14A4a and 14FL for about the same price as one of the current in vogue 'boutique' mouthpieces.

On all of them the rim is identical and has pretty much the same feel as a modern Bach 3C but slightly smaller. Turns out they might just be my Goldilocks sets of mouthpieces to cover pretty much any situation. Time will tell of course.......

I know the Horntrader and Curry 3C. have been mentioned, but would just like to point out that the Mount Vernon rim from which they are based is quite a bit flatter than the modern 3C rim. This might be great for some people, but if you want the exact same Bach 3c rim feel you won't get it from these mouthpieces.

Hope that helps!

Carl

jadickson · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:40 am Post subject:

You are right about the Curry rim. I have not tried the horn trader mouthpieces, so I cannot speak to that.

For what it's worth, the James New "S" rim seems to split the difference between the Curry rim and the modern rim. I have only had it for a few days, but I really like it a lot.
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GordonH · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:48 am Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:51 am Post subject:

The Wick 4 rim is also quite close, as is a mouthpiece made by Ian Porthouse. I wrote an article here:

http://www.ecalpemos.org/2016/10/perfect-cornet-mouthpiece.html

It is getting the mix of flatness to roundness and bite that is the issue. I am still experimenting a bit because I recently changed cornet.
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oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

With all this hammering that 3C ought to be a lot smaller by now.

delano · Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:22 am Post subject:

lipshurt · Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:39 am Post subject:

if someone wants a 3c but slightly smaller, they can get a piece that is downsized in the computer by 2 percent, That equates to starting out with a 3c lets say, of 655 diameter and ends up with the exact same shape in 645 diameter. The proportions stay exactly the same, same cup shape. That means that its both 2 % narrower in diameter and also 2% shallower in depth.

you can get stuff like that
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J-Walk · Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 6:22 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:25 am Post subject:

I agree that the overall rim shape is likely a bigger factor in perceived size than some single measurement at any particular point on the curve.
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J-Walk · Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 10:36 am Post subject:

JLandressBrassCustServ. · Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:45 am Post subject:

I would try to find an older Bach 6C. It shares a similar contour to the 3C and is just a touch more narrow while still having a standard c cup.

In our opinion, it is a much more comfortable alternative than a stock Bach 5C as well!

Hope this helps!
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Bandcity · Posted: Mon May 27, 2019 8:14 pm Post subject: Smaller 3 C

Try a Bach 10 1/2 C. Great mouthpiece, similar to 3C in shape (check the Kanstul comparator) and definitely smaller. A lot less expensive if you like it. I bet you can borrow one from almost anyone, so even if this is a crazy idea it was potentially free.
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Tim

Riojazz · Posted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:30 am Post subject:

GR was mentioned earlier. I played a Bach 3C for years and moved through Warburton and Stork to a GR66M. Currently, I use a GR66MS. If you are looking for the .660 diameter, the GR series is remarkably consistent in its manufacture.
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plankowner110 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 3620

In answer to the original post,

Bach 3C but slightly smaller: Yamaha 14B4

I played a Bach 3C for decades but switched to the Yamaha 14B4 a few years ago. Easy transition.
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