• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Mouthpieces: I dont get it..



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
TheShyTrumpeter
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 39
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys, I'm a junior in High School, and I'm just wondering what the numbers on mouthpieces mean? I hear people on these forums talking about mouthpieces and I always get confused. I also really wanna know what the difference is between the numbers, and which ones are used for what.. These questions are probably really confusing, hopefully someone will hear me out and answer them.. Thanks in advance.

BTW, I play a Vincent Bach 3C and I also have a Schilke14A4A... which ones should be used for what?...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
fuzzyjon79
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Posts: 3014
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different manufacturers use different numbering systems. For instance, Bach's system starts at 1... it has the biggest (widest) rim diameter... the bigger the number, the smaller the rim diameter becomes. Their cups are B, C, D, and E. B would be the deepest and E would be the most shallow. I'm not sure if Bach makes an A cup, but they might. If they do make an A cup then that would be even deeper than the B cup. Schilke goes the opposite way, the smaller the number, the smaller the rim diameter. I'm not a mouthpiece expert, but hopefully someone can explain Schilke's system to you. The first number refers to the rim diameter ( I think ) and the first letter refers to the cup depth. The second number refers to the throat... (again.. I think) and the last letter refers to the backbore. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can help clarify this for you.

_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"

[ This Message was edited by: fuzzyjon79 on 2003-11-12 14:59 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
TheShyTrumpeter
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 39
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks man... I just don't know the mouthpiece anatomy... I mean... where is the rim? where is the bore?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
E.D.Lewis
Veteran Member


Joined: 07 May 2003
Posts: 300
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello, ShyTrumpeter and welcome to the TH Forum. Mouthpieces are very confusing things indeed, especially nowadays with so many manufacturers out there. The two biggies that most everyone else uses as a standard are Bach and Schilke (which you have). With the Bachs, the number tells you the inner diameter of the cup with smaller numbers = larger cup. 7C is probably what you started on in grade 5 (or whenever you started) and is a good middle of the road cup. The 3C is a bit larger in diameter, 2 is larger still, 1 1/2 larger again, etc... The letters tell you the depth of the cup with C being in the middle, B is deeper, A deeper still. Conversely, D is shallower, E more shallow etc... However, with the Bach mouthpieces not all C cups are the same. The 3C cup depth isn't the same as the 7C or 1 1/2C, so the standard is a bit skewed.

With Schilke (and Yamaha uses this system as well) the first number tells you the cup diameter: Schilke 11 = Bach 7, Schilke 14 = Bach 3 (roughly). The first letter tells you cup depth, the second number tells you the contour of the rim (round or flat) and the second letter tells you the size and shape of the backbore. Go to the Schilke home page or check out Lou Donaldson's Schilke Loyalist page at http://www.dallasmusic.org (I think that's it, someone will correct me if it's not). The Schilke Loyalist page is full of good info and will tell you all about Schilke's mouthpieces. There is also a Bach Loyalist page that you can search for to find out more about their mouthpieces.

In general, the 14A4a you have is good for playing a lot of high stuff (shallow cup and tight backbore), like playing lead in jazzband, and the 3C is good for everything else.

This is a very rough intro. to mouthpieces and it might be wise for you to not dig any deeper on this topic. You have two mouthpieces that have worked for many many professional players throughout the years and simply hitting the woodshed is going to be the best path for you at this point. Don't get caught up in the hype - cars still have four wheels and run on gasoline and Arturo Sandoval still uses a 3C. You might only give yourself a headache if you decide to experiment with other pieces. But that's just me.

Hope this helped a bit, good luck with your playing.

Edit: Sorry, Lou Donaldson is the alto sax. player. JIM Donaldson runs the Schilke Loyalist page. I've been listening to too much Clifford - if there is such a thing as too much Clifford!?!
_________________
Peace and Live Music, Eli Lewis

[ This Message was edited by: E.D.Lewis on 2003-11-13 15:21 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheShyTrumpeter
Regular Member


Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 39
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks alot E.D.Lewis, you have "englightened" me, if you want to put it that way. =)

I'll just stick to my 3C for now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address
fuzzyjon79
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Posts: 3014
Location: Nashville, TN

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The rim is the part of the mouthpiece that comes into contact with your lips. The backbore is the part of the mouthpiece that is located below the bowl (cup) part.

For a more accurate description, go to this website: http://www.bobreeves.com/products/mouthpieces/index.htm

Click on where it says "Mouthpiece anatomy/Nomenclature".
_________________
J. Fowler
"It takes a big ole' sack of flour, to make a big ole' pan of biscuits!"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trumpetmike
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts: 11314
Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShyTrumpeter

If it works - use it.

If you start a search for the perfect mouthpiece, you will spend a fortune and probably end up in no better state than you are already, but you will be the proud owner of a huge pile of mouthpieces that you never use.

I would guess that most of the people on this forum have got at least a dozen mouthpieces that they no longer use. I know I have. Some of them I can't even get a decent note on nowadays, yet I used to play everything using them (Denis Wick 5X - for orchestral playing - what was I thinking!?!?!?!?!?).

Have a look through the various manufacturer's websites and you can usually find a general list of terms and jargon explanations.

As for when you should use certain types of mouthpiece - why do you think you need to use different ones? There are players who do everything on the same mouthpiece, others who will change mouthpiece for almost every piece. If it works for you, it may be a good thing. For me, I have found that I stick to the same rim width and diameter (same Warburton number - 1) and then have different depths of cup depending upon the instrument I am playing (F for flugel, D for Bb, MD for C/D/Eb/G and A picc, and an MC for Bb picc). It works for me.

There are rough guides available for which make's mouthpiece sizes are approximately equal to each other. I can't find one immediately, but the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator is a good place to start;

http://www.kanstul.net/mpcJN/Compare/CompareIE.HTM

I think that's the right site anyway!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
drunkiq
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 16 Aug 2002
Posts: 1117
Location: Austin, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some good stuff for the bachs...

want to know how this really works for schilke?



Schilkes are comprised of 2 numbers and two letters - for instance - 13a4a

first number = cup diameter of the rim - the bigger the number the bigger the diameter. The numbering system goes from 1 to 25 and each jump in a number means that the cup diameter has increased by .005 inches - the diameter is measured from the inner edge of the rim.

first letter = cup volume - they have five:

A = small cup
B= medium small
C = medium (standard)
D = medium large
E = Large

second number = rim countour - they have five choices:

1 = roundest
2 = semi-round
3 = standard
4 = semi-flat
5 = only slightly round

second letter = taper of the backbore (the smaller the letter the more resitance it has) - they have 6 choices:

aa = zinger (really tight)
a = tight
b = straight
c = standard
d = slightly curved out
e = large

now you should now know that a 13a4a has a 13 size rim with their shallowest cup volume, a semi-flat rim and a tight backbore

if you see one that says 14a4 - the last letter omitted means that it is has the standard backbore (a c backbore) - basically this means it is a 14a4c

if you see on that just says 15 with nothing else then this means all the other number are letters are standard meaning it is a 15c3c

other thing you want to know....

1: a smaller cup volume = a brighter tone

a larger cup volume = a darker tone

2. a smaller (tighter) backbore = more air restitance with a more centered sound

a larger backbore = less air resitance with a more open sound (at the cost of more air)

3. the throat size can be opened for a bit less air resistance and works in smaller increments than when going up a whole size larger in backbores..

4. rim diameter is a personal choice - some like the big, some small and some inbetween

5. the rim coutour is a personal choice too - some like them more round, some more flat, etc

hope that helps,



_________________
-Marc
A Schilke Loyalist
drunkiq@hotmail.com

My Schilke X3Lb in Satin Gold


[ This Message was edited by: drunkiq on 2003-11-12 20:52 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Jenny Lee
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2021
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey All,

This thread inspired a blog article covering trumpet mouthpieces and some of the main sizing systems for them, including Bach and Schilke:

https://musicalinstrumentguide.com/trumpet-mouthpiece-sizes-shapes/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
trickg
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5675
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jenny Lee wrote:
Hey All,

This thread inspired a blog article covering trumpet mouthpieces and some of the main sizing systems for them, including Bach and Schilke:

https://musicalinstrumentguide.com/trumpet-mouthpiece-sizes-shapes/

Holy zombie threads Batman! 18 years? The "Junior in high school" OP is 35 years old and probably hasn't touched their horn in 15 years. How did you even dig up this dusty old thread?
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler

"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jenny Lee
Regular Member


Joined: 06 Jun 2021
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Jenny Lee wrote:
Hey All,

This thread inspired a blog article covering trumpet mouthpieces and some of the main sizing systems for them, including Bach and Schilke:

https://musicalinstrumentguide.com/trumpet-mouthpiece-sizes-shapes/

Holy zombie threads Batman! 18 years? The "Junior in high school" OP is 35 years old and probably hasn't touched their horn in 15 years. How did you even dig up this dusty old thread?


Haha!

It is an old thread. But much of the info is still relevant today. My colleagues and I prowl TH from time to time looking for common questions to write about. This one turned out to have a lot of good responses.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Mouthpieces All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group