What Do Bronze Bells Sound Like?

rebelatheart · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 11:55 am Post subject:

I've been reading posts here for several months and have a few questions built up. How would the sound of a bronze bell (such as that on the Kanstul 1500A) compare with other bells such as rose brass, yellow brass, copper, etc.?
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Martin · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 1:08 pm Post subject:

What do bronze bells sound like?

"Donnnnnng".

ok, sorry.

Generally, darker than yellow brass bells. Then again, bell flare and thickness can make it brighter...
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DavesTrumpet · Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2003 6:53 pm Post subject:

GordonH · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:48 am Post subject:

Berylium Bronze is not bronze at all.

Its copper.

The bells are formed through an electroplating process, not from a sheet of metal.

Gordon
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nieuwguyski · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:17 am Post subject:

Kanstul and Calicchio also offer bells that they describe as "bronze." In those cases I don't think they are pure copper bells, nor do I think they contain beryllium.
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GordonH · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 9:33 am Post subject:

I doubt they would be bronze as bronze is quite brittle and cant be worked easily (unless they are casting it).

Gordon

rebelatheart · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:10 am Post subject:

I did some poking around on the internet for information about copper based alloys and one site described commercial bronze as 90% copper and 10% zinc, which wouldn't be that much different than gold brass or rose brass, which if I remember is around 85% copper, 15% zinc.
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Fast Freddy · Regular Member Joined: 12 Sep 2003 Posts: 99

I don't doubt that beryllium may once have been used but we now know just how toxic it is to work with in the manner of trumpet-making.

As for "bronze" (an alloy of copper and zinc) , like Rebel mentioned, most are going to fall into a percentage range. The highest probably being ~90% copper 10% zinc and the lowest being maybe 70/30 respectively. The alloying percentages can cause some confusion because that would just be one variable and in my opinion, it's not the most important. Bell shape (taper and flare) along with the gage thickness of the material employed would make a bigger difference in overall performance.

My 2 centavos.

nieuwguyski · Posted: Fri Nov 14, 2003 3:30 pm Post subject:

Back in the Bronze Age, bronze was an alloy of copper and tin. When referring to trumpet bells I think only the 90%-copper/10%-zinc alloy would be called bronze. All the other ratios would be brass of some flavor or another.
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Tootsall · Heavyweight Member Joined: 05 May 2002 Posts: 2952

Repeat of a message posted some time ago:

Quote:
These questions forced me to start asking why I hadn't checked some of my engineering books! In my copy of Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers I found a whole mess of stuff on Brass, including the makeup of different types. I haven't got time nor inclination to post the whole four pages of small type, closely spaced table of different "blends", but here are the important ones: (ksi stands for thousand pounds per square inch and is roughly representative of how "hard" the material is).

Red Brass, copper alloy #230, 85% copper, 15% zinc, tensile strength from 40 to 70 ksi.
Yellow Brass, copper alloy #270, 65% copper, 35% zinc, tensile strength from 62 to 74 ksi.

Nothing listed under "gold brass".

"Low Brass" (I thought this referred to tubas and such), copper alloy #240, 80% copper, 20% zinc, tensile strength from 44 to 74 ksi.

"Commercial bronze", alloy #220, 90% copper, 10%zinc, tensile strength 37 to 61 ksi.

And for those who just "gotta know":
Beryllium copper, copper alloy # 172, 98.1%copper, 2.15% beryllium, tensile strength from 70 to 118 ksi unless heat treated in which case it's up to 180 ksi.
Unquote.

To which I would now add that there may be small variations in the "formula" by different material suppliers or in different countries where controls on the use of lead may vary.

Oh, and of course to mention that the Schilke "Beryllium" bells as well as the old Conn coprion bells are(were) both made by the electrodeposition of an almost pure copper alloy onto a form which was subsequently removed...and which explains why Schilke can get such extremely lightweight, even thickness, but terribly delicate bells.

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[ This Message was edited by: Tootsall on 2003-11-14 18:46 ]