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Long Tones


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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Winghorn wrote:
So, John and Roger, between the two of you, with whom should I begin my Skype lessons?

Regards,

Steve


Ask Siri.
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Siri?
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Winghorn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oops. I get it.

Seriously, I would like to take some Skype lessons. I am most familiar with Mr. Mohan after reading many of his excellent posts. PM to follow.

Regards

Steve
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shofar
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Location: Rogersville, Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Lessons Reply with quote

Hey Steve;

I think John would be an excellent choice for some lessons.

If you decide you'd like to do some with me sometime, email me at the following address.

Talk at y'all soon,

Roger Wood
screamin_raptor@mac.com
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illegalbugler
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Joined: 18 May 2015
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mohan wrote:
illegalbugler wrote:
I pulled that quote, with the odd Capitalization, from a version that has the 1912 copyright notice but does mention his "Third Series" (Characteristic Studies) and has a 1915 copyright for that.


That's really interesting. So there are (at least) two revisions of Clarke's wording. I am wondering specifically which edition you have. According to Jeff Purtle's info on the following webpage, what I quoted is from the original book (and also appeared in the older Carl Fischer edition with the blue cover).

https://www.purtle.com/clarkes-technical-studies-then-and-now-jeff-purtle

Here is the book Jeff quotes from:



What does the cover of your book look like?


Personally, I have one of the later Carl Fischer editions. I pulled the quotes from a version online.
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread! I like long tones for sure. Especially with crescendo/descrescendo. I like Cat Anderson's ideas about long tones. I like Rusty Russell's 19/30's exercise. But nothing has worked for me as well as doing Clarke 1 from the middle out, slurred and tongued..at a comfortable 'mf' volume. I do it 2x everyday nowadays.. takes me about 35-40min. It does things for my chops that I've heard some other players say about long tones.. But this exercise is like a 'magic bullet' for me.. It just gets my airflow working so efficiently and gets my whole playing mechanism into a relaxed, but 'locked in' state..where my whole range feels more like the piano keyboard rather than a big distance between low and high.

I don't know all the reasons this particular exercise works so well for me.. I know they are like 'moving long tones'. Also the late Mike McGovern used to say that chromatic practice was great because it was least amount of movement (practically speaking) between two notes and you were training your chops to have the greatest amount of efficiency moving between all the notes when you practice them. It could also be that this long term continuous practice of something that is fairly low impact (although if you're not used to this type of playing, you may need to build up to being able to do it 2x through comfortably) is enforcing the muscle memory of relaxed playing with a smooth airflow over the course of 35-40min. All the best, Lex
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ljazztrm wrote:
I like long tones for sure. Especially with crescendo/descrescendo... But nothing has worked for me as well as doing Clarke 1 from the middle out, slurred and tongued..at a comfortable 'mf' volume.

I've been taking your advice on Clarke 1 that I've seen in your previous posts and have been incorporating it into my practice more often. I've been using them to maintain range, and that's been helpful. Thanks for this tip, Lex.

I've also been working out of the Franquin book a lot, and it uses long tones starting pp, crescendo to f, then back down to pp. Kinda difficult to do smoothly, especially alternating notes in octaves the way Franquin wrote the exercises, but it's gradually getting easier over time. I was convinced when I read Jens Lindemann's interview of Chris Martin, where he asked what are the most beneficial things Chris has done with his practice, and the very first thing he said: long tones with extreme dynamic changes.
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Late Mike McGovern"? Did he pass away? When? I just spoke with him a couple months ago. I heard he was sick though. Someone please confirm that.

Just reading his FB. He passed Feb. 9, 2017. Very sad. But, I know he's in a much better place and we will meet again. I liked him even if we didn't agree on all the CG stuff. We had a great talk about Presbyterian and Reformed theology and Predestination. I sold him a horn before too.

Jeff
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ljazztrm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey cool deal denis. I haven't checked out Franquin's book yet, but I know it's available on qpress now. Thanks for mentioning about the long tone studies in it. Besides Hickman's book, there is a little known book called 'Cornet Playing' written by a NZ muso in 1960. Recently made available on
https://qpress.ca/product/cornet-pla...re-system-pdf/ I would rank this right along w the top books like Irons, Schloss, and Hickman's. It has some wonderful lip flexibilities and the chapter on control is outstanding - again that concept of decrescendoing as you ascend - addressed in some different ways. It expands upon Goldman's Daily Embouchure Studies in really good ways along with some other great exercises. All the best, Lex
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This seems like a fitting way to close out this topic:

From H.L. Clarke's Technical Studies for the Cornet, Carl Fischer Edition of 1984, the instructions for the Sixth Study state:

"These scales, which encompass nearly the entire range of the instrument, will improve your endurance and lip technique. Practice as written as well as single and double tongued.

You will begin to realize that your technique, endurance, and music reading facility will improve far more by playing these exercises than by simply playing long tones."


Regards,
Grits
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look at the original text contained in the following article that compares the original and the 1984 version that is has lots problems with the text.

https://www.purtle.com/clarkes-technical-studies-then-and-now-jeff-purtle



Sixth Study

Original
Another form of major and minor scale practice in different registers; a great help towards endurance, technic and elasticity of the lips.
Both tonguings should be practised as usual.
Perhaps now you will realize that much more benefit is derived from playing these exercises in one breath than by holding long tones. At the same time endurance, technic, elasticity of lips and the knack of reading music rapidly, is gained.

Revision
These scales, which encompass nearly the entire range of the instrument, will improve your endurance and lip technique. Practice as written as well as single and double tongued.
You will begin to realize that your technique, endurance, and music reading facility will improve far more by playing these exercises than by simply playing long tones.

Comments
The point of playing these “in one breath” is left out. This is a significant error because the main point is a long tone on one note verses a particular exercise that moves around the instrument with coordination of the fingers, wind control, flexibility and range. Long tones are stagnating by comparison.

This is not over the entire range as the revision states. Clarke in his Elementary Studies book shows that the cornet can play from double pedal C to double high C and he was known to play to triple high C. Cornet soloists of that time played higher and lower on inferior instruments by today's standards. “Lip technique” was never a phrase or concept of Clarke.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why Trumpet Herald exists.

I am amazed that guys like Jeff Purtle, John Mohan and Eric Bolvin take the time to educate us struggling hackers.

Once again, thank you for your post, Jeff.

Regards,
Grits
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illegalbugler
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
Look at the original text contained in the following article that compares the original and the 1984 version that is has lots problems with the text.

https://www.purtle.com/clarkes-technical-studies-then-and-now-jeff-purtle



Sixth Study

Original
Another form of major and minor scale practice in different registers; a great help towards endurance, technic and elasticity of the lips.
Both tonguings should be practised as usual.
Perhaps now you will realize that much more benefit is derived from playing these exercises in one breath than by holding long tones. At the same time endurance, technic, elasticity of lips and the knack of reading music rapidly, is gained.

Revision
These scales, which encompass nearly the entire range of the instrument, will improve your endurance and lip technique. Practice as written as well as single and double tongued.
You will begin to realize that your technique, endurance, and music reading facility will improve far more by playing these exercises than by simply playing long tones.

Comments
The point of playing these “in one breath” is left out. This is a significant error because the main point is a long tone on one note verses a particular exercise that moves around the instrument with coordination of the fingers, wind control, flexibility and range. Long tones are stagnating by comparison.

This is not over the entire range as the revision states. Clarke in his Elementary Studies book shows that the cornet can play from double pedal C to double high C and he was known to play to triple high C. Cornet soloists of that time played higher and lower on inferior instruments by today's standards. “Lip technique” was never a phrase or concept of Clarke.


There appears to be a slightly different "original" version. It is available online here:
http://www.trumpetcollege.com/video/Clarke.pdf and if the 1912 copyright is correct, presumably now in public domain. They are effectively identical (but as noted by dstdenis in http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1490940#1490940 probably changed by editors for syntax or voice or whatever).

I have no idea which one was "first" and which was revised (before the 1984 version) but the version with the capitalized nouns "reads" a bit more straightforward to me but as a matter of personal preference.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
“Lip technique” was never a phrase or concept of Clarke.


Amen to that!
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