• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

Works for every player???????


Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the cover of The Balanced Embouchure, it states, “A Dynamic Development System That’s Easy To Learn And Works For Every Player.”

The “Works For Every Player” part really irritates some people. Certain critics contend that no system can possibly work for everybody, as we are all different, and they seem to relish the opportunity to point out how foolish that I am, making such an obvious statement of ignorance.

So, why would I, metaphorically speaking, paint such a target on my back?

Because, fear needs to be defeated. Fear is the great multiplier of embouchure problems.

More often than anyone cares to admit, confusion and fear are a major portion of the average trumpet player’s daily experience. Much of this is due to the continuous promotion of methods by the educational community which only work for a small percentage of players. In addition, the philosophy of “different strokes” (trying this and trying that until you somehow come up with the magical solution which fits you and only you - if you are lucky!) was created as an excuse to justify those many “numbers game” approaches to the trumpet, which in turn has steered players into some of the weirdest modes of rationalization imaginable for their lack of success.

Different strokes (DS) sounds kind of logical on the surface, but it tends to be like looking at a glass of water that is considered to be half-empty, when there is an entirely different way of seeing things (half-full). Sure, there are structural differences between players. However, underlying neurological functions regarding embouchure tend to be quite similar. At this more general level (“level” is the key word here) it is possible to effect positive change to every single player, irrespective of specific differences in physiology.

This is the level of the BE approach. When learning BE, the student is usually FORCED to think about the embouchure in a way that seems quite foreign at first. Only after the basic concept is grasped - and for some, this is the hardest part, LOL! - does it become obvious why it can work for everybody.

BE, in my view, is a way to pull players (especially those with chronic problems) out of the fear-filled muck of uncertainty surrounding DS, and back onto solid ground. Making a bold statement like “works for every player” is a way to clearly separate BE from the rest of the pack, and inspire confidence in a field where confidence is sorely lacking.

Another critic once told me, “Your belief is nothing unusual, as all authors of trumpet methods believe that their method will work for every player.” I immediately questioned the accuracy of that statement, as indeed, several authors infer precisely the opposite, which in my view is not exactly confidence-inspiring! But assuming that there are authors out there that actually believe that their method will help every player, NONE OF THEM ACTUALLY SAY IT. At least, I’ve never seen it.

But the critic will persist, “What about those players who tried BE and it didn’t work?”

There are at least 3 reasons why BE may not work:

1. The player is neurologically compromised (paralysis, impaired brain functioning, neuromuscular disease) or is on drugs (including ritalin).

2. The players is too young to have the experiential frame of reference necessary to use a self-help book. (need a whole other thread to discuss this)

3. On an unconscious level, the player does not want to succeed. It may be a lack of patience or a tendency to be easily frustrated, or it can be a deeply rooted sabotage pattern that is running the player’s life.

Sabotage is common. A quick example - ask your students if they want to be better players. They nod and say yes. Ask them if they know that practice will help them to improve. Again, they nod and say yes. Now ask them if they will practice. They may continue to say yes, but the nod is missing, and the eyes frequently look away. The body language and tone of voice tell the real story, that internally, they know that they will not follow through and practice. (need another thread to discuss this also!)

I’ve spent years working with people in the alternative health field. As one of my mentors there used to say, “If you don’t want to be healed, even Jesus Christ couldn’t heal you.”

Because of these three conditions, I suppose that it would be technically more accurate to say that BE “can” work for every player. But to me, that sounds kind of wimpy.

BE is far from wimpy!

Jeff Smiley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2003 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

GREAT POST!! I totally agree with you Jeff...making a statement like that shows confidence in your work and I think is perfectly ok in this situation. I just got off the phone with a good buddy of mine and we were having a discussion about mouthpieces...I was telling him how I would say that, to my knowledge, the mouthpiece I am currently playing is the best mouthpiece for playing both jazz and lead on and that I would state that this mouthpiece is the 'Best mouthpiece design in the world for playing lead and jazz'....To me...hearing someone endorse something in this way tells me that they have a boldness/confidence in what they are doing or saying. That's the type of person I want to work with.....being 'wimpy', as you say, does not inspire a lot of confidence or comfort!

--"I’ve spent years working with people in the alternative health field. As one of my mentors there used to say, “If you don’t want to be healed, even Jesus Christ couldn’t heal you.”--

It's always amazing to me that I have observed, with both myself and others in a number of instances, how we can consciously want to heal something while the subconscious is humming a different tune! All the best, Lex.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
HJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2003 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Jeff,

Maybe I am easy to convince with such things as 'works for everybody', but that's what grabbed me in the first place. Other people might think that it is kind of Tell Selly to make such a statement, but if you are in a position like I was a year or two ago, pro with no real chops, and very musical, thus frustrated, then you believe everyone who is as bold as you are. Or maybe: they need somebody as bold as this: THIS WORKS FOR EVERYBODY, hmmmm, well that did it for me. But..........
From that time on I grew and you know to what extend. I also teach my students (most of them anyway) the BE principals, and I don't have the success I would like to have. So, does it work for everybody? I do not exactly know what would make it work for all of MY students. (mostly kids from 9 to 16 years). After reading your story, I think that I am not as bold as you, so maybe the students do not always believe me. 'Oh, there is this nice Mr. Lochs, with his funny sounds and system'. That's how I sometimes feel.
You say that there are some things that can make it fail, and I think the teacher is also a very important factor. I posted some good things on some of the forums (BE, SC) and got some emails and replies from all over the world of people saying they finally understood the concept and improved within a week. So I am not a bad teacher and I really think I know a lot, but I do not really know how to make BE clear to kids. When they have their first lesson they do whatever I tell them: lip clamp, Lip Squeeze, Tongue on lips, whatever. They love it. Second lesson: they still love it, third lesson: they studies their asses off learning how to play Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star and they did a lip clamp ...once..or,no...twice...this week, But the played MUSIC, haha. And this is important, I think, because this is what it is all about, making music. OK: second month: they know some tunes and waant to know more tunes: lip clamp: zero, roll-in: zero, just some weird teacher (nice, though, because he gives me some nioce tunes, so I learn a lot) with crazy exercises. How much I try to tell them otherwise: if you are a bit further you want to play higher etc..., they just don't do it anymore. And in my opinion you have to be at least a little bit consequent in the BE.

So, with my students it does not work for all of them, not because the system would not work, but because of me not knowing how to make them do it and feel it. Tips?????? Because I think I am not the only teacher struggling with this.

PS. I have some success with a girl (11 years old). She had so much mpc. pressure that her teeth were moving!!!! OUCH. She is very serious (I only seem to be able to teach BE to really dedicated people) about music and does the BE. Her tone is opening up, she's playing up to G2 with power and her tone begins to sing, so it is not only dramatic. I have some little successes. Maybe, not only in playingbut also in teaching patience is the word.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mcamilleri
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2076
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been quite a few years since I have taught trumpet, but I will be teaching again next year using BE. I'll toss in my suggestions, for what they are worth.

Make the 'focused warm-up' part of the lesson plans their regular, structured warm-up, so that the students use the basic BE exercises every time they play. This, hopefully, gets past the problem of these exercises getting boring through repitition, and also stops the student from trying too hard on the exercises. In lessons, once the proper sounds are established, get the students to warm-up in a separate room or with a mute before you start teaching them, rather than 'wasting time' (from the students perspective) listening to the same old thing for half of every lesson. This way they spend more time on learning new BE techniques, studies, and music, and hopefully have more fun.

Treat the lip clamp as strength training - most kids know that top athletes do it, so if you can make the connection in their heads to a sportsperson they admire, you may get them going. 'Pops' uses a pencil exercise that seems very similar to the lip clamp - this might be a worthwhile variation for the really stubborn.

The basic BE exercises on tonguing etc do not provide a motivational progression, in terms of 'going to the next page', or working through a book. Get the students onto technical studies as soon as they are capable, using the BE techniques they have learned.

Have some fun with basic tunes combined with BE. For example, get them to play 'Twinkle Twinkle' and their other simple tunes in the double pedal range (G G D D E E D - C C B B A A G - etc). That should be a real laugh (especially if you do duets with them), and develops the double pedal range and tonguing. After roll-in #2 is under control, they should be able to do the same in the rolled-in range, and once they realise that they are playing notes that only appear near the back page of their method book, they might take BE more seriously.

Trumpet playing is about music, so lend them recordings of great trumpet artists from all genres: baroque, classical, jazz, rock etc, from solos to small groups to bands and orchestras. Once they get hooked on the trumpet sound, they will want to do it for themselves, and will begin to realise how far they have to go in range, power, and endurance. Most kids need long term goals - set goals with them (not FOR them) of, say, playing first chair in the high school band in 2 years, or having the range to play a particular piece, or whatever. Then they will start to connect the BE exercises and practice with something worthwhile. Get them into a band of any kind ASAP - playing in a group is much more fun than playing alone, and can be highly motivating.
_________________
Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
histrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 771
Location: Mobile, Al

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,

After reading what you and others have said (these that have responded to this thread) I am glad that you all have met with such sucess, congrats. I have to clarify that the BE book was not written above my reading level, I do sincerely want to suceed, I am not on drugs, nor am I retarded in any way. Are there any other explanations for why BE would not work?



[ This Message was edited by: histrumpet on 2003-11-18 20:22 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce,

If you are you are truly sincere about wanting to succeed, then email me and I will respond.

However, I have been told that you have written some strongly negative comments about the BE process on another web site. If you are merely attempting to goad me into an argument here, then I advise you to look elsewhere.

I don't think that you, or anybody else for that matter, really wants to drag the specifics of their lack of success - in any field, you pick it - into an open internet forum. And regarding the specific mental or physical problems of someone I have worked with (although I have never met you face to face), I wouldn't ever reveal that information publicly, anyway.

Jeff Smiley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
histrumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Nov 2001
Posts: 771
Location: Mobile, Al

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Negative comments on another website...I guess you could say that. Did you read what I posted or did you hear what I posted? If you read what I posted you know that in my post I stated that I have had a hard time trying to get my chops back together after being unsucessful using the material. The method did not work for me. In that post I also stated that it was possible that it was as much my fault.

Wanting to start an argument......No, not today, not tomorrow, never. There is nothing to argue about. You are painting with a pretty wide brush with the statement made in the first post of this thread. There are others in the same boat as I am, they just haven't said anything. If this offends you then I apologize. I won't take anymore of you guys time and will delete or edit any posts that put the BE material in a negative light. Keep your chin up fellas.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bruce and Jeff,

Please don't start a quarell. So far this forum is full of good post and positive comments. Let us keep it that way.

Perhaps Bruce could be more specific about his problems with B.E.?
I remember post from you (in 2002 perhaps?) that was positiv about B.E.

No method will work for everybody, not even B.E.

Why?

There will of course from time to time be buyers of this book (and other good books), who are what we may call "shoppers". They are mislead by modern marketing and the belief that you can buy "instant" things. When they hear about B.E. they think - let me get this - then in a week I will have the "double C". This "impatient attitude" will of course make them drop the book after a week or two and go searching for other miracle cures. And I suppose they never even read it?

Bruce, I'm not suggesting you are one of those, so please be more specific about your problems.

As Bert tell us, lot of young kids growing up now in this "instant" environment, don't know that they have to be their own teachers. They think that a teacher magically will transfer the knowledge, all they have to do is to show up once a week with their instrument. As teachers we have to fight this attitude.

The best teaching methods are along the lines that mcamilleri suggest in his excellent post.

Ole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Rustibus
New Member


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 1
Location: Olaf-B.Brattegaard

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OJ just made me aware of this forum so here I am:
Yes Jeff, you are correct. BE works for all.
Why? It's pure logic. Roll-in (curl-in) for ascending, roll-out (curl-out)
for descending. The swing-door effect. What could be easier to understand?
After one and a half year I tend to believe that at least experienced players should consider BE not as a system or methode, but more as a "training programme". I think that's the the reason why you can play as usual while doing it.
From different (and may be envious) sources BE is often refered to as a teaching system for beginners.
Let's not be fooled. It works for all - beginners and pro.
Give BE the credit it deserves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trumpetteacher1
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 3398
Location: Garland, Texas

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ole,

Well, as I said, there wasn't going to be an argument, as I refuse to discuss online the specific reasons why BE might not work for a particular player. Typically, most of the issues are sabotage issues (we all have 'em), and few players want their psychology dragged all over the internet.

That doesn't mean that I won't argue about anything. If I have the time to participate fully, I like a good debate. But on that specific subject, no way.

Ole, as you mentioned, there are "shoppers" out there. There are also players who go overboard, and say to themselves, "If the book says to do it for 5 minutes, then I will make 10 times the progress if I do it for 50 minutes." In addition, There are players who only will read a small fraction of the book, and never grasp the wholeness of the concept. And on and on.

To me, these are all psychological patterns which are self-defeating to the individual. And, they are a pain in the ass to deal with, especially considering that life will throw you enough challenges to keep you busy without needing the added burden of self-sabotage. But we all have these type of issues to work through - except for Lex, who is probably near enlightenment due to all the work he has done on himself.

I admit that to be successful with BE, you may have to change the way that you think about embouchure (and maybe about growth in general). To me, that's a good thing! Others may disagree.

Olaf - great to see you post! Thank you, Ole, for letting him know.

Jeff Smiley
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
mcamilleri
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 25 Oct 2001
Posts: 2076
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going to dive in and reply to Bruce, and share some of my struggles.

I have never been a great player, and at the moment, not even a good player, as I am recovering from a broken jaw, and have had a 4 month lay-off. I have not yet mastered BE, and as Jeff could testify from our emails, I have had some major struggles along the way. His usual response is something like, 'sounds interesting, keep me posted' and after a few weeks I break through on my own.

There is a Troubleshooting section in the book, which I have found extremely useful, as I have struck every problem on the list, apart from Big Lips and Braces. Just want to make it clear that I speak out of experience here, not as someone for whom everything has fallen into place, because it hasn't.

Usually, when I have had problems or not progressed, I have eventually realised that I was not doing the exercises properly, or reproducing the sound on the CD, which was from me not understanding the instructions fully, or getting complacent. It is important to re-read the instructions periodically, since as our playing develops, so does our concept of what we should be trying to do.

This was true in particular for me for the lip-clamp and roll-ins. I realised that I was not rolling in far enough, and that I was not 'Keeping the rolled-in lip position from collapsing', as described in the troubleshooting section, and had a subtle 'protruding top-lip'. Once I re-read the instructions, and spent 1-2 weeks making awful noises, things came right. This happened just last month.

It is VERY important to try to reproduce the sound on the CD, and this includes the thin sounding high notes, and the weak, fluffy low notes on roll-in #2 and #3. I fell into the trap of playing nice, full low notes on these exercises, which of course meant that I was not learning how to play low down while maintaining a rolled-in position, which was the whole purpose of the exercise. No wonder I wasn't progressing at the time!

From my experience the most important things are:

1) Rolling in. Really rolling in, not just a bit more than normal. For me this felt so strange as I used to play by stretch/smile + pressure. This will need a reduction in top to bottom lip compression (I used to compress WAY too much). Rolling-in is a separate action from compressing lip to lip.

2) Trying too hard. If you don't nail an exercise after 2-3 attempts, then you need to try something different, not just repeat what didn't work the last time.

3) Exploring the full range of motion/range of lip setting, even if you end up making awful sounds. For example, raise/lower your trumpet; move you mouthpiece up/down/left/right; Roll-in more, either both lips or individually; blow air-pockets. It is hard to leave the safe territory of your normal playing position, but if you don't leave, you'll never find the promised land.

A couple of 'bag-of-tricks' things that really helped me that you might try as a last resort:

1) If you play on a largish piece (say 3C or larger) try a REALLY small mouthpiece, say a Curry 10.5C, or Curry 620S or smaller (A Schilke 14a4a is LARGE). If you can't play all the BE exercises, and play well on a piece this small, you are not focusing properly yet. If after a couple of weeks playing on this, going back to a larger piece makes you loose focus, you are still not focusing properly (been there!). If you are cheeky, MouthpieceExpress gives you a 15 day trial period, which should be long enough... See page 46+

2) Lip buzzing in a rolled-in or semi-rolled in position. This is the ONLY thing I have said that Jeff has not covered in his book. A year ago I could not lip buzz at all. When I did start, I had WAY too much compression, and would go red in the face. With time I have learned to buzz in a relaxed manner, over a 2-1/2 octave range, which helped me to play rolled in without using excessive compression and lip corner tension. Jeff's comment (and not for the first time!) was that my situation was unusual...

So where am I for all my effort on BE? I play now with better tone, much more endurance in normal playing, far less mouthpiece pressure, and MUCH more power than I used to. My range in normal playing is so far unaffected, but that is, I think, because I have not yet fully developed the roll in, and often fall back into old habits when playing high. With my comeback from a broken jaw, I sense I am on the verge of a breakthrough. I'm not giving up on BE, because it is the ONLY method that has EVER helped me improve.

I hope this contribution is helpful, and apologise for the long post.

Michael Camilleri
_________________
Alpha Angles
Besson Loyalist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I,d like to comment on two recent posts here.

First to Olaf - nice to see you here! I think Olaf really understand the situation for adult players. We have to look at B.E. like he suggest - as a training programme.

If we do that, we will be able to develop while playing like we have been doing. I talked to a guy from Norway on the phone today and told him that when he get B.E. (he just ordered it) he should be patient and take it slowly. When doing B.E, don't be afraid to experiment - this is the time of day for that. Read and reread the text. If you think the lesson plans (on pg. 136 - 140) seem like suited only for beginners - follow them. Don't rush to pg. 140 (2 - 3 years) even if you can play lip slurs from exercises beyond #8. If you can play a nice G on top of staff - don't do that, try to roll in and sqeek or hiss air, then let the trumpet come gently into contact with the lips. Did the pitch want to go higher? Great - that is the goal for now.

Later in the day when playing music - go for the nice sound, now you are not training - now you are playing music!

My second comment is to Michaels last post.
You know this summer when Olaf, Rune and Svein came down to me to work on B.E., Svein showed us how he did Roll-In: Like you, with a lip buzz sound to start it. I think this can be a good idea to try for others who have problem with Roll-In. Do as Michael says, buzz the lips as relaxed as possible in a rolled in positon.

Ole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
ljazztrm
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 03 Dec 2001
Posts: 2681
Location: Queens and upstate, NY

PostPosted: Thu Nov 20, 2003 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve edited this post because I have come across embouchure information that I have found to be much more efficient than my previous views. Please see my latest posts in the Jerome Callet Forum on TCE or some more recent posts in Jeff Smiley’s BE Forum. Thanks and all the best, Lex.

[ This Message was edited by: ljazztrm on 2004-07-22 11:14 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
West-Coast-Horns
Regular Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone know where Smiley gigs at, or with whaat bands, I'd love to come check out the founder of this sytem play some real stuff!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

West-Coast-Horns,

Have you checked out his book? If not, do that. Then we like to hear your opinion on that.

Jeff is primarily a teacher, as you can see in my interview with him:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/smiley/

I have heard a big band CD with his students playing trumpets - wow! What great players at such a young age. One of the kids playing on the B.E. CD can also be heard on the net.

Just go to this page and listen:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?topic=14379&forum=29&1

You will also see that Jeff is rather modest about this student.

Well, as we know - a teacher can be a guide, but a good student is that because he is "his own best teacher".


Ole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
West-Coast-Horns
Regular Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read all the stuff, but has Mr. Smiley ever played professionally, or worked, ala LA,Vegas,Chicago,NY with his embouchure he's figured out? Usually, the founder of most embouchure systems are fine(gigging) musicians. Where can I find sound clips of JEff playing? I am sort of interested in the book, but I would like to see what the finished product(Jeff) sounds like.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
HJ
Veteran Member


Joined: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 387
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Finally found some time again. Jee, a lot of comments on this thread.

First: thanks Michael, some nice tips. Playing Twinkle, Twinkle in the pedal register. I did not try it yet, but if this does not make the kids love the horn, I have no clue what would, haha. It is a little harder with the roll-in part. Even I cannot play a real tune rolled in. I mean REALLY rolled in. Also it is very hard to tongue in the rolled in position. Personally I think it is absolutely necessary that kids tongue everything they play (the only exception being the roll-in exercises in the book), and I have the experience that it is confusing to kids if they have to do things too many ways. So, if it is hard to tongue a tune rolled in and I tell them that is not so bad, the information I give them is too vague IMO. But anyway, I liked some of your ideas.
Second: when I reread my own post I saw that I said: I only seem to be able to teach BE to really dedicated people. DUH.... Bert Lochs. LOL. I think we all agree that that is the only way we can ever teach something to someone. So my problem is not the workings of BE, but how to make my students DEDICATED students, and that is a very tough one. And maybe this is just not possible. I mean: nobody ever convinced me of the fact that if I wanted to beccome a great soccer player, I had to practice with a ball a lot. I therefore was not a dedicated soccerstudent, and I could not care less. Well, I would have made some serious money that way, but....
Third: BE asks a lot of precision and the ability to feel what you do. So, yeah, I am personally convinced that BE works for everybody, because of the pure physical logic behind it, but you have to be precise otherwise it is useless. There is one of my own students that I tried BE on and time after timehe just does not do it right. He wants to improve and wants to try the BE very seriously, but he just does not have the precision and concentration to do it right. After half a year(!!!), every week again, he still is not capable of keeping his lips rolled in the moment the mpc touches his lips, he flattens his chin, rolls out his upper lip and presses the mpc against his chops. I explained him in all the ways I possibly can why this does not work, but he is really unaware of what he does. That is a big problem. To do the exercises right you have to be able to feel what you do, see ( in a mirror) what you do and understand why you do it, and this young man (20 years, university student!) just does not get it, so up till now, it has been useless.
Fourth: although I am convinced that BE is great and works for everybody, and although I think Jeffs book is the clearest and best written book on embouchure EVER (and I read a lot of them!), I am not sure if the book as a selfhelp book, works for everybody. The pictures are a great help, the CD is really helpfull, but I still think it is possible to do it wrong. When I see that to some of my students it is hard to understand what I mean when I show them a roll-out (so they hear it, see it, I put the mpc on their rolled out lips etc.), the book might not be enough, because I see some of my students still not getting it. So, maybe it is important that there is a growing interest from teachers to be able to teach the BE. Jeff, I think you once mentioned being busy writing a kind of teachers manual or something? I think this would be great to have in the future.
Fifth: Michael you are talking about a rolled in buzz. Can you do the lip squeeze? And can you relax this? I have no idea whether this works for everybody (I am just not so bold, sorry Jeff), but after I grew accustomed to the squeeze I was able to hold the mosquito-like sound and just relax my lips, and in this way dropping the sound more than an octave, thus squeezebuzzing up and down. For me this is a daily routine (driving the car, shopping, making my kid laugh) and it works great. NB. It sounds different than a normal free buzz. The basis is the squeeze!!
Sixth: Westcoast Horns: Did the coach of Pete Sampras ever win Wimbledon?

Bert

[ This Message was edited by: HJ on 2003-11-21 15:56 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Lex Grantham
Veteran Member


Joined: 12 Nov 2001
Posts: 345
Location: East Texas

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really have never understood why a teacher with a very good publication for assisting learning of an an instrument such as trumpet has to have been a professional player...anywhere. There are far more players who will NEVER be professional musicians than will be that still desire to learn to play as well as possible...merely for the pleasure.

I believe that Jeff Smiley has stepped forward and provided a great assistance to the trumpet world.

Sincerely,

Lex Grantham

[ This Message was edited by: Lex Grantham on 2003-11-21 19:48 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
West-Coast-Horns
Regular Member


Joined: 17 Nov 2003
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I in no way want to sound as if Smiley's teacings are incorrect, I just like to see the teacher as a demonstrator of their own teachings. Are there any students that are professionals in major music cities? Knowledge is king.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
oj
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 1699
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bert,

About your student:
Why not try do the setting that Ghitalla describe (see step 1 - 5 in the tread "Ghitalla on embouchure")?
If you place the mpc. on his lips, while he keeps the MM-setting (rolled in), perhaps he will feel the difference. A mirror might also be helpful. Just an idea.

Ole
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> The Balanced Embouchure All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 1 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group