Mouthpiece for Cornet to achieve the true 'brass band' sound

[ibagoalie]

I play trumpet and use a Bach 5c. I just got a very nice Bach Strad Cornet, it came with a 7 cornet mouthpiece, so it sounds pretty close to my trumpet. In reading around it seems like Wick mouthpieces are the way to go, to achieve a 'true' Cornet sound. I'm undecided to go whether to go with a 4w or a 4b. I am unclear what sound differences will be between a open and a v-type bore (outside of rim that seems to be the biggest difference between the two). Any thoughts?

[Richard III]

What kind of music do you want the cornet for?
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[kehaulani]

[Richard III]

Sorry. Missed that part. True brass band sound. Wick no letter.
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Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Seymor B Fudd]

[TKSop]

For me, Curry BBC or a GR with the #7 cup (incl sparx no letter) are the best compromises of playability and brass band tone.

The Wick ultra I found WAY too bright with UK brass bands - some of the American bands are a good deal brighter so it might work there... It's a great piece to play, but not got the traditional sound.

The Wick no letter takes a lot of air but play well if you can handle it.

The Yamaha 16e is decent (and cheap) and will allow a traditional brass band sound, as does the lewington-mccann piece.


Ultimately, like any other mouthpiece, you'll have to try a few and see what sticks.

[zaferis]

The best mix of sound and playability have been Curry's for me..

I have a set, P, DC, VC, TC, & BBC. For most of my cornet playing I've settled into using the DC-to my eye and ear this is very close to an old Bach 6 cornet mouthpiece that I have. (Which BTW has a great sound too)

In the Brass Band, I'm more apt to use the TC, but my tone is already darker and rounder than my associates, so for me and my situation right now, the BBC is too much
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Freelance Performer/Educator
Adjunct Professor
Bach Trumpet Endorsing Artist
Retired Air Force Bandsman

[Dennis78]

I personally use a Bach 5b and blend well with the others. I'd say just from looking most of the guy are blowing on Wicks, one fellow even has a Wick heritage piece. But it has a lot to do with how you play the cornet also.
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a few different ones

[Seymor B Fudd]

[p76]

Hi There,

Advice in previous posts pretty much on the mark. If you've only played on Bach style mpcs until now, a good starting point is a Wick 4B, will assist in giving the right tone without being a bucket.

If you can, see if you can borrow one and try it first. Many people (including me) struggle with the rims on Wick mpcs, as they are very flat and have a sharp drop into the cup.

If you prefer a more rounded Bach-like rim, I recommend the Curry BBC line. The sizes are similar to Bach, and I find them very good mpcs.

My 2c

Cheers,
Roger
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Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[rufflicks]

Stomvi Has a line of British Brass Band short shank mouthpiece... worth a look.
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http://www.youtube.com/user/Rufftips

Remember this is supposed to be fun.

[Bflatman]

Dont fall into the trap of selecting a mouthpiece before you buy it.

Is it a Brass Band sound you want as in the title of this thread or a true cornet sound as in your original post, the two are different.

A true cornet sound comes from a shepards crook cornet with a very deep vee mouthpiece with huge open throat. And out-cornets a British Brass Band cornet.

Or it uses a shepards crook cornet with a large cup mouthpiece and large throat such as a wick 4 or 4b this is more traditional British Brass Band tonality

Or it uses an american wrap cornet with a modest cup mouthpiece and open bore to deliver a brighter tonality more seen in the US

Or it uses an american long cornet with a deep vee mouthpiece and huge bore and delivers rich tones with slightly brighter upper register more seen in trad jazz

I could go on it all depends what tonality you desire.

It is even possible to sound like a cornet with a trumpet by careful mouthpiece choice and good control.

I recommend getting a small range of mouthpieces, start with a wick 4b and add a big deep vee mouthpiece with huge bore if you can find one, you may have to buy a 19th century cornet to get hold of one as I did, but it has stunning rich tones. And lastly a more modest cup cornet mouthpiece.

Then you play them on long assessments to decide which is delivering the tones you want in the instrument you have with the way you blow.

[Louise Finch]

Hi

I presume that you have the Bach 184 short model cornet. I've owned a Bach 184ML since 1995. In my honest opinion, there are two things to additionally consider, the first is that at least in my opinion, my Bach 184ML with a 11.66mm bore has less resistance than my Yamaha Xeno cornet with a 11.90mm bore. I've happily played my Bach 184ML cornet with a Bach 3C for years (of course this combination does give a British Brass Band cornet sound), and it has little more resistance than my Bach 37 trumpet/Bach 3C combination. On the other hand, I have not been able to get a standard Bach 3C to work in my Xeno because the combination just has too much resistance. The 928 Sovereign is a lot worse. Our new conductor had a go on my Xeno cornet the other week and remarked how more free blowing it is compared to a Sovereign. Maybe it is, but it still has more resistance than my Bach 184.

In my honest opinion, the deep cup, large throat and presumably open backbore balance the extra inherent resistance of the Sovereign. If you use a Denis Wick no letter cup on a Bach 184, my first thought is that the Denis Wick no letter cup will be too open, but I don't think it is this simple.

Bach cornets have an actual mouthpiece gap owing to having the mouthpiece receiver mounted like on most trumpets. Denis Wick mouthpieces insert considerably less far in the receiver than a Bach cornet mouthpiece.

In my honest opinion, and others will probably disagree, a Denis Wick cornet no letter cup is too open for a Bach cornet, and gives a far too large mouthpiece gap. These two features may balance each other out to some extent in terms of overall blow resistance, but in my honest opinion, you are still left with a mouthpiece which doesn't best match the cornet.

My suggestion would be a Curry BBC cup.

All the best

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[GordonH]

I agree. Try the Curry mouthpiece. It is the simplest solution where you are located. Over here there are greater options like Alliance, Yamaha, K&G - all making proper cornet mouthpieces.
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Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

[Richard III]

[Richard III]

[Louise Finch]

[Dale Proctor]

I have a somewhat modern Wick 4B that I never really got along with in my Bach 184. It didn't insert far enough and left a huge "gap". Then I bought an older NOS Wick 4 and it inserted the correct depth. Much better playability, and a nice brass band sound (and I like the rim better), but you need to be in really good shape to play it.

I also have a Curry 3BBC. which is much easier to play, but it gives up some of the fluffy sound of the Wick 4. I've recently been playing my old Conn 9A Victor cornet on the cornet parts in a wind band, and it sounds pretty nice with a Bach 3 mouthpiece - not brass band-ish, but more what I would call classic cornet, a nice contrast to the trumpets. It's such a dark-sounding cornet that it sounds almost like a flugelhorn when played with the Wick 4 mouthpiece.

That said, if you're playing in a brass band, you need to use whatever equipment gives you the best match to the "personality" of the band.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

[lipshurt]

yamaha with a letter e, like 11e, 9e etc are real nice mouthpieces that really get certain cornets to sound great, and not dull or dead, or with no upper register. Same cup works great as a flugel cup too. I use that cup shape (and by the way its the same cup shape as the yamaha show flugel piece...real close).

that cup shape works real good on cornet, flagella, and also trumpet with a modified shank to get a trumpet to sound like a real cornet or closer to flugel sound.

they are easy to get cuz all the yamaha cornets come with them. Very good pieces. they are very close to the wick no letter shape
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Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt

[eyeshouldbebetter]

I finally sold my King Super 20 Silver Sonic last year, so no longer doing the cornet. When I did play it, a good old Bach 5c seemed to work pretty well.
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Answer: practice, practice, practice! What's the question?