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Video: Thomas Stevens Schlossberg workshop


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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Video: Thomas Stevens Schlossberg workshop Reply with quote

Here's a video from a workshop by Thomas Stevens with lots of interesting info about the influence of Max Schlossberg on the evolution of American orchestral trumpet playing. Also includes tips on how to use Schlossberg exercises to get the optimal benefits for each player.


Link

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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great video, thanks for posting.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

superb!
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JLoyalist
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

very nice!
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Dayton
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great video!
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gstump
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the video. Really enjoyed it. I know this sounds like bull crap but I am 2 teachers removed from Schlossberg.
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tpter1
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great stuff here. There's an awful lot to digest- this will definitely need multiple watchings.
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Arjuna
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great presentation by Tommy Stevens.
My teacher Dave Evans always had many great stories about Tommy and his very fine playing and teaching.
There is a wealth of great wisdom about the trumpet to be learned through what Max Schlossberg really taught and to think that many of his notes for students with exercises and studies have yet to be discovered.
Amazing.
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having watched just bits and pieces of this, I am sounding better than I have in ... ever?

I have the Schlossberg book, and have not played out of it recently. Have not done any of the exercises prescribed in the vid. I have no idea what I might be doing differently.

I think I will watch the rest of that vid!
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The stories in this are fantastic and subtly hilarious, especially the ones where a giant like Tommy Stevens didn't make a very good trumpet impression on some of the trumpet heroes of his day. I've never met the man, but he seems like a great teacher.

Watching this led me down the rabbit hole of Tommy Stevens videos and trying to parse out what he really means by Vacchiano's rules. They're fundamentals of music, but not what you'd learn in college theory. They're solfege, but the old Paris Conservatory kind geared towards performance (fixed do? Solfeges des Solfeges?). On one video, he starts describing a half-cadence, but then leads into talking about something else (kind of a meta-description of a half-cadence it seems). They're a replacement for the lack of 19th century literature that trumpet players have. They're the secrets of string players.

Does anybody have a good explanation or maybe another rabbit hole of reading on Vacchiano's rules or the source? I'm guessing that they aren't a list of rules, but surely they are something more than a description of the rules.

This is like a game of Mao.
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
Watching this led me down the rabbit hole of Tommy Stevens videos and trying to parse out what he really means by Vacchiano's rules. They're fundamentals of music, but not what you'd learn in college theory. They're solfege, but the old Paris Conservatory kind geared towards performance (fixed do? Solfeges des Solfeges?). On one video, he starts describing a half-cadence, but then leads into talking about something else (kind of a meta-description of a half-cadence it seems). They're a replacement for the lack of 19th century literature that trumpet players have. They're the secrets of string players.

Does anybody have a good explanation or maybe another rabbit hole of reading on Vacchiano's rules or the source? I'm guessing that they aren't a list of rules, but surely they are something more than a description of the rules.

Brian Shook wrote a bio of Vacchiano, Last Stop Carnegie Hall, and chapter four covers Vacchiano's rules of orchestral performance. They're his specific tips on proper musical style. For example: in a fast tempo, quarter notes should be played long, eighth notes should be played short (detached), and sixteenth notes should be played long. (I've heard this same tip in a brass class taught by Michael Moore, tuba player with the Atlanta Symphony.)

Thomas Stevens has a few short videos on his website and youtube channel about Vacchiano's rules. When he talks about them, though, it seems like he's talking more generally about the way Vacchiano taught and how it was based on solfege principles handed down from his teachers.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stevens has a full video on Vacchiano's Rules available at amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Stevens-Musicianship-Vacchianos-Beyond/dp/B01AYLHSR2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489194581&sr=8-1&keywords=thomas+stevens+trumpet
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JoseLindE4
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's awesome. I saw the videos on Youtube that looked like they were from his On Musicianship but it looks like they are just extended promos for the video. They were intriguing and educational, but he kind of danced around the rules.

And just $2 to rent it? That's a steal.
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BJones
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JoseLindE4 wrote:
They're solfege, but the old Paris Conservatory kind geared towards performance (fixed do? Solfeges des Solfeges?).


I can't help with Vacchiano's rules, but I can help with this.


The Paris Con (as far as I am aware) exclusively uses fixed-Do solfège. While movable-Do is really good for teaching/learning music theory, like learning relationships between diatonic notes and functions of chords in tonal music, it isn't actually very good for chromatic ear training. That's where fixed-Do excels, and it is better for performers. I learned movable-Do in undergrad, but I've been using fixed-Do during grad school, and it's really helped my ears and playing get better.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"You've been in LA too long... you no longer have a fortissimo..."

Amusing.
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y-o-y
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really, really, really enjoyed this video. Content aside (so many stories, such great recall, and amazing experiences), it was fun to see what Hawkeye from M.A.S.H. has been up to since the Korean War.
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gstump
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After viewing many of the Stevens videos on the Vacchiano Rules, the consensus seems to be a rather broad application of proper musical style and solfedge. Idunno?

My teacher was a Vacchiano student, Bruce Revesz. He taught me some practical clear rules about articulation which may be some of these mysterious and elusive Rules.

I taught them to my students. I thought they were musical givens and not just limited to brass playing. After decades of car pooling with clarinet, oboe and flute players I was floored that they so do translate to woodwinds. I did not drive with string players as a principle.

Anyway here is one:

When playing 16th note runs of two slurred, two tongued, always clip the last note in the slur when followed by a short note(s), unless otherwise notated. Is this just a brass thing? Is it a Vacchiano Rule? These are the things people want to know.

Gordon Stump
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dstdenis
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gstump wrote:
Anyway here is one:

When playing 16th note runs of two slurred, two tongued, always clip the last note in the slur when followed by a short note(s), unless otherwise notated. Is this just a brass thing? Is it a Vacchiano Rule?

Shook mentioned that rule in his chapter on Vacchiano's rules. He generalized it as "the last note of a slur must match the articulation [length] of the note that follows it." Since the note after the last note in the slur is short, the last note in the slur should be short too. He goes on from there about paired slurs, like in Petrushka Ballerina's Dance, which involves more rules about where to place the emphasis, etc.

Shook described only a handful of Vacchiano's rules and mentioned that there were many more, maybe 200 or so.

David McGill described rules like this in his book Sound in Motion. These rules were handed down from Marcel Tabuteau, French oboist with the Philadelphia Orchestra in the 1920s and guru of phrasing at the Curtis Institute. His rules are more analytical, though. With Tabuteau, the decision about whether to clip the last note in a slur should be based upon what's happening harmonically and with the note groupings. (I wonder how these folks ever managed to sight read anything with all of the analysis they liked to do?)
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Last edited by dstdenis on Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Derek Reaban
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The video was excellent! Thanks very much for posting it.

As far as the Vacchiano Rules, David Krauss mentioned several of these in his class at the ITG Conference in Denver years ago. I loved his "Gazelle" example related to phrasing. That was one of the best classes that I ever attended!
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gstump
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstdenis wrote:

.......Shook mentioned that rule in his chapter on Vacchiano's rules. He generalized it as "the last note of a slur must match the articulation [length] of the note that follows it." Since the note after the last note in the slur is short, the last note in the slur should be short too.....


Yes, that is the rule I was taught. I have all the notes Bruce wrote. My oboe player car pool partner said she was taught not to clip the last note in a 2 note slur when followed by 2 short notes. She would play them taaa....ahhhhhh...tut..tut. I would break a blood vessel in my head playing trumpet like that. But oboists carry knives so......
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