Yamaha Xeno vs Schilke S-HD Series

[Fishbones_]

Hey y'all. I was wondering about your guys' thoughts on the Yamaha 8335RS and RGS (new generation) against the Schilke S-HD Series. I plan on using it for mostly classical, solo, and chamber work with maybe a little jazz combo thrown in for fun. I'd also welcome some feedback on how some Bach bells stack up against these two, particularly the 65 and 72.

[a.kemp]

Both of these horns are much closer to Bach 37 and 43 profiles than 65 and 72.

They're both great. But, they feel substantially different.
Personally, I think the Yamaha is a more well rounded horn than the Schilke.
I've played a lot on the 8335rgsII. But, GREATLY preferred the regular 8335SII model. (Especially for legit playing). But, the Schilke is a very solid horn. Kind of funny...people say the Yamaha's are very vanilla sounding...I feel that way about Schilkes big horns. But, also think that 'vanilla sound' is often misconstrued for being super even across registers.

[Christian K. Peters]

Hello all,
Both horns are built with an integrity and quality in mind. They play differently, as they both have a unique response and sound. I think it would take some time in a big room to really discover the nuances.
_________________
Christian K. Peters
Schilke Loyalist since 1976

[dstdenis]

[Louise Finch]

[quote="Fishbones_I plan on using it for mostly classical, solo, and chamber work with maybe a little jazz combo thrown in for fun.[/quote]

Hi

Considering what you plan to use it for, my recommendation would be for the YTR-8335(S)II e.g. the standard tuning slide configuration ever the YTR-8335R(S) or YTR-8335RG(S). I play this trumpet, and find it to be absolutely great for classical and orchestral playing. I play it with a James R New custom top (copy of the cup end of my 2005 Bach 3C) combined with his version of a standard Bach 10 backbore (rather than his S backbore), cut for sleeves and with his 6.5 sleeve.

I find this combination to have a very smooth and even response, with a fairly compact sound, which is pure, clear, smooth and refined. Although I'd describe the sound as fairly compact, I don't mean that it is small, more that is fairly concentrated. This trumpet in my opinion has an excellent dynamic range, and is really easy to play quietly but can be pretty loud when pushed.

Personally I'm however not quite sure of the sound of this combination for my Jazz band. Although this is a pretty general purpose trumpet which works well in a variety of styles, to my taste it is a little smooth sounding (at least with my mouthpiece) for Jazz, and I'd personally prefer a slightly bigger broader sound.

I also own a 1979 Bach 37, and although they sound pretty similar when recorded on my admittedly rather crude microphone set-up, I find the Bach 37 a little better for Jazz, maybe this is because it is a little less smooth and the sound is a little bigger.

I also wonder whether the fact that my Xeno is in lacquer is making a small difference, and that maybe silver-plate would give a little extra brightness to the sound (my Bach 37 is in scratch-gold plate).

Anyway, I think that the Yamaha Xeno II with the standard tuning slide configuration is a great trumpet. I haven't played a Schilke.

Take Care

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

[Fishbones_]

[a.kemp]

I'm just saying that I think the Yamaha is a great all around horn.
Great for legit! Solid for commercial and lead. (Without being a 'lead' horn)
It doesn't shut down in the high register. But, it's not a lightweight horn either. So, can be a bit more work since it takes a bit more work to 'heat up' for lead.

The Schilke plays nicely. But, I don't think it has the depth of sound to make it as good as an all-around horn. Not saying it isn't solid. But in comparing the two, I think it's fairly clear.

[Fishbones_]

[Louise Finch]

[a.kemp]

[dstdenis]

I haven't played a Schilke HD series instrument, but I've watched video demos and I haven't heard anything that I think would remove them from consideration as a good all-around trumpet. They sound great to me.

I really like my Yamaha Xeno, and I'd recommend it for all around playing. I've used it in wind ensemble, church services, jazz band, and pit orchestra for musicals (I'm currently working up Catch Me If You Can, which is written in big band swing style--lots of shakes, fall offs, bendy stuff, etc. The instrument is well-suited for this, but I've got lots of work ahead of me to finish learning the book!)

So I'd encourage you to play-test examples and decide for yourself. Either brand might have a model that would be a great choice for you.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Fishbones_]

Okay, thanks for the responses, guys. In terms of the Xeno, do you guys think the standard Xeno or the reversed leadpipe Xeno works better for classical/symphonic playing?

[dstdenis]

I found the standard leadpipe version has slightly more resistance in the blow than the reverse leadpipe model, but not to the point where it feels too stuffy. I prefer the extra resistance--it's been a life saver for me on strenuous performances. But you might prefer a more open blow, in which case you might like the reverse leadpipe better.

Chase Sanborn wrote that he thought the standard leadpipe version sounds a bit different than the reverse leadpipe version, but I thought they were pretty close. The blow was the deciding factor for me.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[Louise Finch]

[a.kemp]

For straight up classical? I much prefer the standard leadpipe.
I like the reverse too, but can get swimmy with larger pieces (opened throats and BB's). Great with commercial equipment.

[Louise Finch]

[a.kemp]

apologies for getting WAY off topic!!!!

Lou,
Have you ever tried a 14b4 in place of your Bach 3C?
Would be interesting what you thoughts were? Every Yamaha I've played played has benefited from a Yamaha mouthpiece (when replacing a Bach mouthpiece). Which, totally explains your gap thoughts. I don't know if it's shank length or shank taper. But, my 8335SII, 9335NY, 9445NY are all more even and more resonant when using a 16C4 over my Bach 1.5C's.

Added bonus that I have four 16C4's that I use and they all feel exactly the same. (Regular weight, GP model, rim on Parke underpart, and Sterling Silver model)

Can never say the same about Bachs mouthpieces.

Also, my 9835 picc sings with a Yamaha 11A5 and GR 64p-m. The Bach 7e has eveness issues

[Louise Finch]

[Fishbones_]

Thanks for the input everyone! For all the Bachaholics out there, what are your thoughts on the 37, 65, and 72 bells for symphonic and general classical repertoire?

[a.kemp]

180s37 ML for classical playing.
Not the only Bach that'll work. But, hard to beat. (That's why every other company copies it.)

The Artisan Bb and 190S37 are also great. All are roughly the same with minor differences.