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CG Personal Mouthpiece


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thehedge
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Joined: 20 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits,

I'd recommend at least trying the CG P-20 or P-22. I have both along with a standard Marcinkiewicz #5. I had been using the #5 for a few years when someone suggested that I try one of the CG saying that they work very well with the Benges I have.

I tried the CG's for a few months but went back to the #5. I always had the sensation I was swimming in the CG's.

As you and I have discussed, I started SADP earlier this year and one day picked up my second Benge and that had the CG P20 in the case so went through the daily with that.

After a couple of months on SADP, I felt that I was no longer swimming in the CG but was "gripping" it instead.

You're many weeks ahead of me in SADP and have stated that you've noticed your embouchure has changed so try the CG. It will take a little getting used to but I think you will like it. If not, after giving it a good run, you can always choose to go back to the Curry 3C.

No need to go the full safari route.

All the best!
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt Graves wrote:
Thanks, for the plug, John!

Yes, I was in attendance at the Certification course face to face!

Bruce Haag was there as well!

I miss Claude and Bruce!

Bruce is still with us.


Hi Matt,

Thanks for the info. Do you remember and would you be willing to list everyone who personally attended those sessions? I maintain sporadic contact with Bruce (I should do better). I think he still has Claude's Breitling Navitimer watch which I someday hope to be able to afford to purchase from him. I think he also has Claude's Pilot Logbooks as well.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of note, concerning the CG 3, it is basically a slightly more V-shaped version of a Bach 3C with a bigger throat (#23) and a bigger backbore. According to the scans Jim New made, the Kanstul CG3 has about the same depth, but is a bit more V-shaped than a typical modern Bach 3C (see the scan below). That V-shaping reduces the overall cup volume a bit and makes the upper range a bit easier on it than on a typical 3C.


https://s25.postimg.org/nqf8512dr/Bach_3_C_red_vs_CG3_green.jpg
Bach 3C (red) vs CG3 (green)

(Click on the above image to see it full-sized in a separate window).

Of note, though I don't have a scan to confirm this, the Reeves 43C is very similar in cup shape and size to a CG3 (though I think the 43C is a little shallower). Also, with its fairly large #26 throat and fairly big Reeves #2 Backbore, the 43C has a lot of the playing and sound characteristics of the CG3, but a different feel on the face due to the flatter, wider rim.

For me, the CG skeletonized rim shape has never felt good. But I love the 43C and have been doing almost all my work playing on it since 2003. And similarly, when I want a darker sound, I have often gone to my Reeves 43B with its deep V-shaped cup, #22 backbore and even larger Reeves #3 backbore - for me, it is a CG Personal with a likeable rim.

Cheers,

John Mohan
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

illegalbugler wrote:
Will these videos ever become publicly available? Would be nice to know the "method behind the madness" as it were.


Yes, I hope so. I need to find the single missing S-VHS tape from the collection (I know I have it somewhere in the litany of boxes of stuff we containerized and shipped back from Germany in 2004 - just need to finally go through them all). Then I need to digitize them and maybe use an image stabilization program on them if possible (the Warp Stabilizer in my Adobe Premiere Production Suite works wonders, but it isn't really designed to stabilize hours of footage, but rather, short clips). And then finally, before I can do anything, I'll need to make sure no one inherited the legal rights to the material. If any entity does, it would probably be the Jehovah's Witnesses Kingdom Hall in Big Bear, California. I have been leaving messages regarding these tapes and also the Claude Gordon Masterclass video on their answering machine for about ten years now (no one ever answers), but they never return my messages.

Cheers,

John
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Paul Tomashefsky
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Oh, yeah, Claude said "Constantly changing mouthpieces is the beginning of the end. The student should get a good mouthpiece and stay with it the rest of his playing life." Can anyone give me some advice on which mouthpiece to stick with for the rest of my playing life?


I never studied with Claude Gordon, ( But I did use his systematic approach method off and on) so this isn't a criticism or put down to anyone who did, but my personal philosophy is that our bodies and our embouchure's do change over time like all things in nature. Lew Soloff of (Blood Sweat & Tears) fame carried an arsenal of mouthpieces with him, and it didn't seem to bother his playing. Maybe what Claude was "thinking" or trying to share is that by switching mouthpieces constantly "for no apparent reason" other than experimenting, is a bad idea, as you body (embouchure & muscles) never fully get acclimated to the piece. I have modulated between Bach 10 1/2 C Bach 3C Stork 3C Curry 3C and currently Bob Reeves 43C i also have a short shanked mpc for my C Trumpet Bach 3C 24 throat (Jim Becker-Osmun Music modification) and a host of Lead type mpc's GR 64.7* and Reeves, 43S 69 back bore In th end it's not about what our favorite players use, it's about the most comfortable tools that work for YOU. I've done the 'Let me buy this artist mouthpiece and it'll make me sound just like him" thing and trust me, it doesn't work. We're all designed differently from our Lips to our muscle structure to our oral cavities, and My best advice is to seek out a good local Trumpet teacher (from a recommendation) and study with him/her for at least 5-6 months and if you're not improving seek out someone else. But also realize that it takes determination, perseverance and PRACTICE to improve on any musical instrument. I'm finding more and more with my younger students, that they don't want to know about the "practice" end of being musician, they want to press the button and have the music come streaming out, like their cell phones. Good luck!
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brassmusician
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I'm finding more and more with my younger students, that they don't want to know about the "practice" end of being musician, they want to press the button and have the music come streaming out, like their cell phones."

Off thread but I agree with this Paul, a great way to put it. In defense of children/teenagers they have to be taught the discipline of persisting with regular practice - something which few parents are willing to do these days in my experience.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A lot of good information here.

I'm thinking of having Jim New make me a CG cup and backbone with a #22 drill with the Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C rim. The one knock on the CG mouthpiece seems to be the lack of a comfortable rim. I love the feel of my Curry 3C and Jim New has a rim patterned off of the same Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work as well as the Marcinkiewicz version?

Regards,
Grits
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
A lot of good information here.

I'm thinking of having Jim New make me a CG cup and backbone with a #22 drill with the Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C rim. The one knock on the CG mouthpiece seems to be the lack of a comfortable rim. I love the feel of my Curry 3C and Jim New has a rim patterned off of the same Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work as well as the Marcinkiewicz version?

Regards,
Grits


There's no reason at all this wouldn't work. Rim size and shape is a very personal thing - Claude even wrote words to that effect in his Brass Playing Is No Harder Than Deep Breathing book. The rim Jim New has (an exact copy of Arturo's MV3C rim, which Jim now calls his S5 rim) is almost the exact same size as the Curry 3C. rim. That said, they are slightly different (the Curry Rim is a tad wider - same inner diameter but slightly larger outer diameter). If you want the exact rim as what you have on your Curry 3C. mouthpiece, ask Jim about that. I think he has a scan of it and should be able to replicate and blend it with the CG Personal bottom. All that said, the difference between the two rims is negligible. If blindfolded, I don't necessarily think I could tell which is which while playing them.
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John:

I will search through my old photos. I have a picture with everyone who
attended my classes with Claude.

I will post it here soon as I can find it. Off the top of my head,
there was a guy with the first name "Ken" in attendance. There was at least two other guys attending besides myself, Ken and Bruce.
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homebilly
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rich hoffman ?
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is one photo I found on my email:



I can't remember the bearded man's name on the left. I'm in a suit and tie behind Claude. Bruce Haag, one of Elvis's last trumpeters, is on the right. This was not everyone in the class. There was at least one other person, maybe two.

Poor Claude was suffering a lot from cancer treatment and it shows.

This was sometime between January 1989 and April of 1990.

I'm gonna look for other pictures.
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Last edited by Matt Graves on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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EricV
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Matt

Its great to see these pictures, keep them coming!
Cheers
EricV
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Eric!

I was just reminded by Bruce that the bearded guy on the left is Marv Ellis.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
John Mohan posted:

There's no reason at all this wouldn't work...


John, thanks for the assistance. I saw your post about Jim New mouthpieces in another thread. It was very helpful.

Warm Regards,
Grits
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Matt Graves
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another picture from my CG Certification Class,
Back row left to right is Marv Ellis, Kurt Heisig (Store owner and Sax Player), "Ken",
Front Row left to right is myself, Bruce Haag and Claude.
The class was smaller than I thought!:


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Last edited by Matt Graves on Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grits Burgh wrote:
A lot of good information here.

I'm thinking of having Jim New make me a CG cup and backbone with a #22 drill with the Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C rim. The one knock on the CG mouthpiece seems to be the lack of a comfortable rim. I love the feel of my Curry 3C and Jim New has a rim patterned off of the same Arturo Sandoval Bach 3C. Is there any reason why this wouldn't work as well as the Marcinkiewicz version?

Regards,
Grits


Grit,

If you want this piece, I've actually already had Jim make me this exact configuration for both the CGP and CG3. I don't use them as my main pieces, so if you want, I can sell them to you? Both are very nice-playing pieces. I'm playing on the Marcink CGP again though because, after a long hiatus from it, I now actually like the rim.

Alternatively, you can just ask Jim to make you a "CGP5A" or "CGS5A". He has them on file from our custom work.
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Grits Burgh
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw your post offering to sell your CG pieces. Hold that thought!

I have already contacted Jim New about a new piece. However, he was in the process of moving into a new house, so I think that I am on hold with him right now.

The pieces that I asked Jim to make have the CG blank (a la Marcinkiewicz) and will be cut for sleeves. Is that what you have?

Also, I plan on taking a lesson from Jeff Purtle. He may have some advice for me in regards to mouthpieces.

Anyway, once I sort out what I really want, I might very well be interested in buying your CG pieces.

Warm regards,
Grits
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Getzen 3810 C Cornet
King Master Bb Cornet (1945)
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Last edited by Grits Burgh on Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Grits,

My CGs are indeed on the CG personal blank. They aren't cut for sleeves though. Backbore, throat are the exact same as the Kanstul Jim has on file.

James has his machines at his new place now. He should be pretty much ready to fulfill all orders.

If you want to chat to Jim, the CGP5A is a good place to start if you're after the Marcink diameter as that was what we settled on after I did a lot of interrogating of various CG people trying to workout what the actual diameter of the Marcink is because no one is really too sure where it sits. Most people though it was a little larger than the Kanstul which they put around a bach 7 although some said it felt like a Bach 3. I ended up splitting the difference and making it a Bach 5 size hence the 5 in CGP5A. The A is for the Arturo rim.

The one thing to be aware of us that the Marcink cup is a little different to the kanstul. The Marcink has a little more room at the top before it 'v's. The Kanstul is v'd right from the rim. That said, both play well.
I ended up then making a CGP with the Neill Sanders rim which I played on for a while too
Right now, I'm finding I like the original Marcink the most so am sticking with it.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Matt,

Photobucket has changed its policy, and it seems its new goal is to suck. Even after creating a Photobucket account, I still cannot access your photos. I can see the gallery page with the small versions of them, but they won't open.

I use www.postimage.org as it is free and works. When you have time, could you upload those pictures to that site and then link them here in this thread?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

John
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the Marcink. CG3 in the mail today. Have to say, I really like this mouthpiece too. The CGP has a darker sound, but the CG3 just feels a lot zippier and louder in the upper register which is nice. Really digging it.

Out of curiosity, anyone know what the throat is in the CG3?
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