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It's a Klezmer Thing



 
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nkolisnyk
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Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject: It's a Klezmer Thing Reply with quote

Hey there. I was wondering if anyone could point me towards some info on achieving that certain Klezmer technique.

I'm subbing with a brass band, and we are playing Sat by Boban Markovic. The technique I'm having trouble is found at 2:10 of this video. It's kind of like a trill/gracenote tagged on to every quarter beat, but anything I try sounds too clean. Maybe it's an airstream thing?

https://youtu.be/8yShvAeh7C8

A side note, I love his tone. It goes against what most people would call a beautiful tone, but there's just something about it. It reminds me of Kenny Dorham...

Any help would be appreciated.
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I NOT an expert on this music but...

...what I heard more than one trumpet playing at that spot. Also, they're using rotaries as opposed to piston. Rotaries are not less clean than piston in that (perhaps they're actually more?) but that might account for .... something?

If it's just one trumpet doing that, then dunno... maybe someone else can enlighten.
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david johnson
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

to me it sounds like slurred triplet 16ths followed by eighths
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

david johnson wrote:
to me it sounds like slurred triplet 16ths followed by eighths


16th triplet followed by 2 16th notes, this is a very common figure in Eastern European folk music. I love the tune!
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of the above - the line is doubled by at least two or three players, so playing those quick triplet 'mordent' figures (on the beat) with a few friends adds that 'blurry' effect you're hearing. And, the European rotary flugelhorns (not trumpets) they're playing also contributes to this unique quality - more so the particular sound of these instruments, rather than the rotary mechanism. Finally, though this is a mere technicality, this music really isn't Klezmer, but Balkan brass of the Serbian Romani tradition --- truly great stuff, nonetheless.

Happy practicing!

-DB
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Daniel Bassin
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I play:
Monette CORNETTE
C: Monette P1
Various Bb, D trumpets.
Picc: mid-70s Schilke P4-3 (Monette A pipe)
MPCs: Monette Prana Resonance 1-1 series.
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bike&ed
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danbassin wrote:
All of the above - the line is doubled by at least two or three players, so playing those quick triplet 'mordent' figures (on the beat) with a few friends adds that 'blurry' effect you're hearing. And, the European rotary flugelhorns (not trumpets) they're playing also contributes to this unique quality - more so the particular sound of these instruments, rather than the rotary mechanism. Finally, though this is a mere technicality, this music really isn't Klezmer, but Balkan brass of the Serbian Romani tradition --- truly great stuff, nonetheless.

Happy practicing!

-DB


Thanks for adding that comment, I didn't think the tune sounded quite like the Klezmer tunes I'm used to (I play a LOT of Klezmer), but I'm always open to expanding my understanding of the "borders" of the genre...
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bike&ed wrote:
Thanks for adding that comment, I didn't think the tune sounded quite like the Klezmer tunes I'm used to (I play a LOT of Klezmer), but I'm always open to expanding my understanding of the "borders" of the genre...


Anytime! There was a pretty fun documentary from just a few years ago called "Brasslands" - it was once on Netflix, but I just checked and it seems that fell off current rotation - on the world's largest trumpet festival, in Serbia. The special rotary flugels (and the trumpet-shanked mouthpieces they use on said flugels) complement the virtuosic approach and engaging soundworld of this music in a very special way.

On this topic...of not exactly Klezmer, but amazing traditional brass music, the 'Corneta' has a remarkable musical tradition, with super-virtuosic features: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R28xqX8dG24

It's an inspiring world of music out there!

-DB

PS - here's some of the music in a fuller context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfHjbaviX8s
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor, Composer, Trumpeter, Educator

I play:
Monette CORNETTE
C: Monette P1
Various Bb, D trumpets.
Picc: mid-70s Schilke P4-3 (Monette A pipe)
MPCs: Monette Prana Resonance 1-1 series.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread with great info.
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since my previous post, I came across this useful resource on the Corneta:

http://trumpetpla.net/2016/01/20/what-is-a-carmen-corneta/

-DB
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Daniel Bassin
Conductor, Composer, Trumpeter, Educator

I play:
Monette CORNETTE
C: Monette P1
Various Bb, D trumpets.
Picc: mid-70s Schilke P4-3 (Monette A pipe)
MPCs: Monette Prana Resonance 1-1 series.
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nkolisnyk
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Joined: 03 Dec 2012
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Location: Winnipeg, MB

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danbassin wrote:
All of the above - the line is doubled by at least two or three players, so playing those quick triplet 'mordent' figures (on the beat) with a few friends adds that 'blurry' effect you're hearing. And, the European rotary flugelhorns (not trumpets) they're playing also contributes to this unique quality - more so the particular sound of these instruments, rather than the rotary mechanism. Finally, though this is a mere technicality, this music really isn't Klezmer, but Balkan brass of the Serbian Romani tradition --- truly great stuff, nonetheless.

Happy practicing!

-DB


Ah good to know, thanks! The Band Balkan Beat box is another example of this amazing style. Here's one of my favourite tunes by them. Sounds like a boatload of practice required to get this down!

https://youtu.be/_4fifxR8EAw

That's interesting about the valve flugelhorns. I feel my n+1 itch coming on again...
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RandyTX
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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Danbassin wrote:
Since my previous post, I came across this useful resource on the Corneta:

http://trumpetpla.net/2016/01/20/what-is-a-carmen-corneta/

-DB


Oh, very cool. Thanks for posting this. There is a video that floats around from time to time of one of these being played outdoors somewhere, I think perhaps in Spain. I've long wondered how they are played and that is a great article.
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1jazzyalex
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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a movie called "Trumpets Republic" you'll have to buy on DVD if you can find it, it's very rare and not online, but it's about this type of music and the society that produces it. It's very good which is why I mention it; it's worth the difficulty of obtaining it.
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hackney_wick
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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The ornamentations are played both inside and outside the beat (listen to the second trumpet solo here for instance) both in the top line and the bass line (it helps if you have more than one brass bass) and never forget its dance music! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5v33U-HpU0
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