You play a very nice design already. Take your time in deciding. Watch the Marketplace for trends. If you see lots of secondhand trumpets of a certain design/model number, that may indicate the design didn't live up to the hype.
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject:
Congrats on paying off your loans!
I wonder about your preferences for an open trumpet vs. something with some resistance? There seems to be a trend these days to design trumpets to feel very open, which limited my choices when I was shopping a few years back (I prefer trumpets with some resistance in the blow). _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
Have you done your Debt Free Scream on the Dave Ramsey show yet?
Cheers,
John Mohan
Skype Lessons Available - Click on the e-mail button below if interested _________________ Trumpet Player, Clinician & Teacher
1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story, Evita, Hunchback of Notre Dame,
Grease, The Producers, Addams Family, In the Heights, etc.
Ex LA Studio Musician
16 Year Claude Gordon Student
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:36 pm Post subject:
I hear nothing but good things about the VRII. Lynn Nicholson has a new horn out. He talks about it being an improvement over MF’s horns like the Holtons..and that it has more of a ML blow with a L bore sound. The Schilke B6 or B6LB (Chase model and brighter). I know a pro classical cat who loves the B6 for a lot of his work. The Carol 5000L-YST is a great axe..If you want to go a little bigger, the 5000L-YLT is more like a Bach 72 blow.. I have this one in the Blackhawk model. I find that a lighter, more free-blowing horn is the most versatile in general, the most responsive to mouthpiece changes to change the quality of the sound. It’s easier for me to ‘darken up’ a lightweight, bright horn than it is for me to brighten up a heavier, dark sounding horn. _________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
The OP's stated desire is essentially for a "Holy Grail" horn. I don't think there is a horn made or even a horn that could be made which would fully meet all of the OP's requirements. Designing to increase the sonic characteristics in one direction necessarily reduces the sonic characteristics in the other direction. There is no horn that is maximum bright and maximum dark at the same time, maximum tight slotting and maximum loose slotting at the same time, maximum smokey and maximum clear at the same time, etc.
The only way to fully meet the OP's requirements is with multiple horns or, at the very least, a horn with a modular design incorporating interchangeable leadpipes, tuning slides and bells. However, even a modular design would probably not provide enough variation to fully meet all of the OP's requirements.
With a single horn some variation can be achieved by using different mouthpieces but the range of sonic difference would be significantly less than what could be achieved with multiple horns.
If a player wants very specific sonic results there is no adequate substitute for using the right tool for each job, the tool that is designed to meet all of the player's sonic requirements. There is no trumpet that can be the best of everything. _________________ HERMOKIWI
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 76 Location: Cornwall UK
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:24 am Post subject:
I second the Eclipse Celeste CLS, I am also loving mine, you could go for the Large lightweight Yellow, yellow brass would be great for orchestral and rock as it'll cut through easy, this also a jack of all trades horn but due to that lazer welded large bell will cut through anything when needed.
I play Jazz and Soul/funk and have went for a medium yellow bell, I also play classical a couple of times a year outside the practice room.
The scary thing about the Eclipse Celeste CLS is that it is £2750 GBP for a hand Built horn compared to £2900 GBP for a 37 Bach, not hand built and without the leadpipe system. The exchange rate is also in US dollars favour at the moment. _________________ Eclipse Celeste MY 2023
B & S Challenger flugelhorn
Previous horns:
Eclipse Celeste CLS MY
Eclipse LY (rear tuned)
Bach ML37
B & S Challenger ii
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:04 am Post subject:
HERMOKIWI wrote:
I don't think there is a horn made or even a horn that could be made which would fully meet all of the OP's requirements.
I'm not aware of a stock horn like that either, but I wonder if one could be made.
The conflicting requirements seem to be that it be a lightweight horn that's also suitable for playing classical music. I have a Yamaha 6310Z, for example, that plays and sounds great. But when I play strong in the upper register, it starts to light up a bit more than I think it should for concert band. Maybe the M/K Drawing SR Slide Set would fix that for the OP.
A more all-around horn, like my Yamaha Xeno, for example, gets brighter and yet still retains a strong core in a playing situation like that. But I consider it to be a standard-weight instrument, not lightweight (although it isn't heavy to hold), and OP said lightweight is non-negotiable.
A few years back, George Coble, former principal trumpet with the Syracuse Symphony Orchestra, recommended a lightweight Bach Stradivarius in another TH post:
George Coble wrote:
Truth be known, the esteemed 2nd trumpeter of the New York Philharmonic for 30 years, Carmine Fornarotto, regularly played on an all brass, light weight model 37 ML Bach Bb and he always correctly matched the quality of sound with those around him. If I was to recommend an all-around Bb trumpet it would not be one of those horns that weigh so much a jazz player has trouble holding it up for 4 hour gigs. The Bach light weight models have proven for decades their worth. With one of these, if one wants to “light up a room” use a relatively shallow mouthpiece and employ “fast air”. If one wants to play with a symphony orchestra use a large mouthpiece and slow air. If one wants to spend a lot of money, there are music stores that will accommodate that. Choosing a Bach lightweight Bb trumpet is simple, efficient, versatile, and most reasonably priced.
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:13 am Post subject:
To the OP, what do you find lacking in the Bachs you already own? _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:20 am Post subject:
cheiden wrote:
To the OP, what do you find lacking in the Bachs you already own?
Hi there. Good question! They are both standard weight Bach trumpets. The 37 feels quite stuffy to me. Its sound is compact and great for some applications, but I find the trumpet difficult to get around on - difficult for me to ascend from low F# to over high C.
The Bach 25 is a great horn - a real monster. But the large bore combined with the tight bell means that the thing is basically just a flamethrower. I find the sound difficult to color, it's a bit one-dimensional. It was my main axe for years, so I love the horn, but it's definitely not an "all-rounder." And the large bore configuration makes it rather exhausting to play on 3-hour gigs.
Neither of them have the instantaneous response I get from lightweight horns, nor do they have the wide range of color palates you get from a horn with a big bell. I've never played a Bach that had the speedy response I get from Yamahas.
Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! Some of these horns are very difficult to come by, so I'll have to do my best to try out what I can...
And John Mohan, no, I hadn't heard about the Debt-Free Scream before! Hilarious. Maybe I'll record one and post it to this thread! _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
Joined: 29 Apr 2008 Posts: 2450 Location: New York City
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:35 am Post subject:
Jerry wrote:
Have you considered a Bach 72* ?
I haven't played one since I was in high school (18 years ago). My buddy had one. At the time I remember it played with an extremely sweet tone. What a gorgeous sound. Very free-blowing, aren't they?
The good ones are jealously guarded by their owners! I think saw one from the '70s at Josh Landress' shop a while back with the toughest and most thorough raw brass patina I've ever seen on an instrument, with a super-thick patch on the 2nd valve slide. That's a horn that has seen battle. _________________ Yamaha 8310Z trumpet
Yamaha 8310Z flugel
Curry 3.
I bought one used (as new) to a fellow here on TH one month ago.
I cant put it down since, a very special horn.
Supposed to be a 1S2 copy, i cannot comment on that since i never tried a 1s2.
But this horn is lightweight with a strong core and permit a very precise playing, respond very well to ppp playing (better than any horn i ever tried)
So, designed to commercial playing, with a deeper cup (i play it with a Kanstul CG7), it give a very full and warm sound with clean attacks and great responsiveness.
If you can (they are only sold by Trent Austin ins USA, i think) try one !
PS : the valve block seems to be a Carol Brass one and is very good. _________________ Frederic FELTZ
Yamaha XENO 2 8335 S
Lotus 3L brass
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject:
Turkle wrote:
Jerry wrote:
Have you considered a Bach 72* ?
I haven't played one since I was in high school (18 years ago). My buddy had one. At the time I remember it played with an extremely sweet tone. What a gorgeous sound. Very free-blowing, aren't they?
The good ones are jealously guarded by their owners! I think saw one from the '70s at Josh Landress' shop a while back with the toughest and most thorough raw brass patina I've ever seen on an instrument, with a super-thick patch on the 2nd valve slide. That's a horn that has seen battle.
I had a ML Strad with a lightweight body, standard weight 72 bell and reverse 25 leadpipe that I LOVED before it got stolen. I'm told that stronger players tend to favor the standard weight body, lightweight 72* bell and standard 43 pipe. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
I'm normally a Bach 180s37 or 190s37 guy, but if you're looking for a lightweight horn, I'd vote for the Bach LT190B Commercial. It would definitely be high on my list. The Schilke's would also fit in that list. _________________ Visit www.TrumpetFinder.com for the best deals on trumpets and accessories!
Joined: 12 Jun 2011 Posts: 3636 Location: Pacifica, CA, USA
Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject:
You're in NYC, so it'd be a bit of a drive, but I was really impressed by both Tony Scodwell's trumpets and the Calicchio replicas that Charlie Davis is making. I think they are available at Washington Music center outside of DC. Both those guys are great players and play test each instrument. I saw them at the 2015 ITG out here on the west coast - man, that Davis trumpet was really tempting.
-Lionel _________________ "Strive for tone." -John Coppola
Edwards X-13
ACB MV3C /ACB A1/26 backbore
https://yourbrass.com/
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