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dcjway Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
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Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:37 pm Post subject: NY Bach 26-48 |
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After finishing up my daily practice routine on my Shires Destino I took out my old Bach and wow what a nice warm broad tone it has. The horn is a 0.448 bore with a 26 bell (made with thinnest gauge German brass Bach used at the time as evidenced by a 45 stamped on bell just below Bach's signature) and a 5 lead pipe and everything on the horn is original with the exceptions of the lacquer a longer 3rd valve stop rod and the addition of a 1st valve slide saddle all done by Charlie Melk. I bought the horn from the 80 year old daughter of the original owner making me only the 2nd owner of a piece of history. There seems to be virtually no info on the 26 bell, I have contacted Roy Humpley to see what he might know. He said there is no documentation in the archives on the bell, he did have info on the 5 lead pipe in that it is tight (the flare on the pipe from receiver to tuning slide is very apparent). He also said that 1934 was sort of an end of a period when Mr Bach was beginning to question an early notion that he should concentrate on making large bore trumpets using the 6 mouthpipe and varying his bell dimensions, stepping through #6, #7, #10 and #7-10 bells. He also said at the time he began to expand his range of bore sizes and nomenclature of his small bore trumpets (0.448) to SM or medium-small that left room for an even smaller bore size at 0.440 that he then called his small bore. Mr Humpley said if he had to guess he thought my trumpet may have been made for big dance bands and that he didn't think Mr Bach had a handle on what kind of trumpet would crack that market, but that sounded like something he would try. Mr Humpley also stated that he didn't seem to recall horns with the 26 bell becoming big sellers, which ties into what rockford told me, that only maybe 100 horns with the 26 bell were made (mostly 0.448 and 0.453 bores though I personally have seen two 0.459 bore horns with the bell ie: model 26-59)
So after all that does anyone have info on Bach's 26 bell or would like to share any experience with their own New York Bach. _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate |
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TheBrassBandMajor Veteran Member
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 263 Location: New Zealand
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:27 am Post subject: |
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The Bronx era of Bach was a real 'experimental' stage for Bach. Just entering the trumpet manufacturing industry, he experimented with a variety of bells in the NY era. So it isn't surprising to see a rather rare bell.
I have never heard about a 26 bell before. _________________ Vincent Bach Mt Vernon Mercedes
B&S Challenger 3137/I
Hermann Ganter G7aN
A.Windisch Silber-Deluxe, Dresden
Couesnon 'Triebert Moderne' piccolo
Conn 'Connstellation' 28A
SO many more trumpets..... |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 906
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:56 am Post subject: |
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It is my understanding that Bach's bell numbers reference the order in which the bells were designed. That would mean that the 26 bell was designed immediate after the 25 bell. The 25 bell, which is currently still available, is the standard large bore bell. It has a tight throat and a focused sound. I am just speculating, but I wonder if Bach was trying to produce a similar sound quality for a smaller bore horn with the 26 bell. |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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adagiotrumpet wrote: | It is my understanding that Bach's bell numbers reference the order in which the bells were designed. That would mean that the 26 bell was designed immediate after the 25 bell. The 25 bell, which is currently still available, is the standard large bore bell. It has a tight throat and a focused sound. I am just speculating, but I wonder if Bach was trying to produce a similar sound quality for a smaller bore horn with the 26 bell. | Bach renubered the 7-10 bell as 25 in the mid 30's. Same bell just a different designation.
In general they are chronological except for a few exceptions like this. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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Matt White Regular Member
Joined: 24 Jun 2011 Posts: 38 Location: Pawleys Island SC/Nashville
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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I have a M bore (7 pipe and 38 bell) from 1940 that I've been playing on for about 10 years. I really love the core of sound on that setup and how efficient it feels. Great on a microphone, but it was always a little more work in a really loud live setting.
About 3 years ago I bough a L Bore from 1935 with a 25 bell and 6 pipe. I usually don't like L bore trumpets as I prefer some resistance, but I really like that combination. Something about the resistance of the 6 pipe on the front end really helps and I feel like I can color the sound a little more on that setup. It's also way more open on the top end.
I'm playing that horn now almost exclusively except some small group settings I'll still use the M Bore.
I've never played or seen a 26 bell. It's really fascinating how many options and configurations are on those early horns before the stock setups we're set in stone. I think there is something to that early tighter wrap too... _________________ Matt White
Associate Professor of Music
Coastal Carolina University
http://mattwhitejazz.com
@mattwhitejazz (twitter/instagram)
Bach Trumpet Performing Artist
Patrick Mouthpieces |
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adagiotrumpet Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 May 2006 Posts: 906
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:10 am Post subject: |
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rockford wrote: | adagiotrumpet wrote: | It is my understanding that Bach's bell numbers reference the order in which the bells were designed. That would mean that the 26 bell was designed immediate after the 25 bell. The 25 bell, which is currently still available, is the standard large bore bell. It has a tight throat and a focused sound. I am just speculating, but I wonder if Bach was trying to produce a similar sound quality for a smaller bore horn with the 26 bell. | Bach renubered the 7-10 bell as 25 in the mid 30's. Same bell just a different designation.
In general they are chronological except for a few exceptions like this. |
Wasn't the 7-10 bell created using both the 7 and 10 mandrels to make a single bell? If so, does that mean that the 25 bell is still being produced using 2 separate mandrels? |
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rockford Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Aug 2007 Posts: 2477 Location: Northern VA
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Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: |
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adagiotrumpet wrote: | rockford wrote: | adagiotrumpet wrote: | It is my understanding that Bach's bell numbers reference the order in which the bells were designed. That would mean that the 26 bell was designed immediate after the 25 bell. The 25 bell, which is currently still available, is the standard large bore bell. It has a tight throat and a focused sound. I am just speculating, but I wonder if Bach was trying to produce a similar sound quality for a smaller bore horn with the 26 bell. | Bach renubered the 7-10 bell as 25 in the mid 30's. Same bell just a different designation.
In general they are chronological except for a few exceptions like this. |
Wasn't the 7-10 bell created using both the 7 and 10 mandrels to make a single bell? If so, does that mean that the 25 bell is still being produced using 2 separate mandrels? | The design of the 25 is the same as the 7-10, which is is a hybrid of 7 and 10 characteristics. How they were blended is anyone's guess but the hybrid design was turned into one mandrel. _________________ Bill Siegfried
NY/Mt. Vernon Bach trumpets. Yamaha flugelhorn and piccolo A/Bb, Monette and Hammond mouthpieces. Fender and Peavey Cirrus Bass Guitars. Ampeg and Genz-Benz amps. Embraer 170/175/190. |
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GarryOwen2008 Regular Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2013 Posts: 54 Location: LA: Lower Alabama
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:28 am Post subject: |
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I also own a New York with a 26 bell. Mine is a 0.459 bore with a 6 leadpipe. One interesting thing about my horn is that it's the only New York I've seen with the double braces that you find on later 37s. It has a much tighter wrap than later horns (similar to a Martin Committee), and also has an amazing dark tone, though it can certainly light up! It is also extremely easy to play pedal tones on it -- not sure why. _________________ 1935 New York Bach Strad
Adams A9 Trumpet
1970 Bach 37 Cornet
1954 LA Olds Ambassador
Carol Brass "Blackhawk" Flugelhorn |
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pc2001197 Veteran Member
Joined: 11 Aug 2012 Posts: 116 Location: Lexington KY
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: |
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I own a 26-59 from 1933 with a 6 leadpipe. I was at the Bach Fest this year and Ted Wagoner was there and had all the old Bach books and designs for anyone to flip through (but no photos). I checked out the 26 bell and Bach indicated that it is a French American crossover sound. He also noted that it has great sound but only OK intonation. I guess that's why it never gone into huge production. Nevertheless I really like mine even though the bell is cracked and pistons are loose. The sound is big and warm. |
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dcjway Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
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Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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Mine has a tight wrap also, and the info from the Bach Fest is interesting. Maybe that's why my little horn reminds me of the medium bore Martin Committees I have had, it does sound nice playing Summertime. _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate |
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