Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: The one...
I have a confession to make. I only own one mouthpiece. In fact, for about the last two months, I've only owned one mouthpiece. I have no desire to buy another mouthpiece, ever, unless I need something more specialized one day.
Once Bri and GR pointed me in the right direction, I was set. It was a process of small adjustments, and trying different pieces in that diameter range, and quickly, I struck gold.
In a way, I feel back that I did not end up on a GR piece, simply because Brian and GR changed my playing life. I'm sure if I did a full consult where I could try everything they have I might find a better match than the GR's I've tried, but I don't need to. Unless I lose this mouthpiece, it gets damaged, or I have major dental work, I don't see that I'll ever need another.
And you know what? It's amazing. It's freeing. I didn't realize how much time I was wasting reading post related to mouthpiece minutiae, or checking the marketplace or Facebook groups for the next thing I wanted to try.
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
And it's amazing.
The moral, don't give up on your quest, but when you strike gold, STOP, and enjoy.
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9 _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2
At this point, all the knowledge and experience I have of larger pieces (.660-.670 --ish) is just something that allows me to reply to posts here, or to suggest things to friends...
At this point, I'm primarily using something much much smaller (and the additional pieces I use from time to time are in the same neighbourhood) and like you I've gained consistency from sticking to that one "main" mouthpiece for a longer period than I used to.
It's way smaller than I thought I'd ever be able to use and in fact, it took a series of gradual steps down for me to arrive there. I never intended to downsize at all, but over time progressively smaller pieces began to feel large on my face and at that point I would downsize - from largeish 1.5C's to 3C's to Warburton 5's, Warburton 6's/GR64's and finally to Reeves 40.
If you'd told me a couple of years ago that I'd be using a .625 ID mouthpiece as my primary piece, I'd have laughed at the very idea - but there comes a point where you relax and use what works, pay attention to what's happening at the chops and adapt as necessary.... and here we are.
Now here's to hoping I can stay dry (although I would never choose to play on dry chops )
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: The one...
jaysonr wrote:
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9
And if the specs are right it appears to be a small-ish 3C at 0.650". My favorite comparator puts the standard Bach 3C at 0.665" with the stock Bach 1.5C measuring 0.670".
I'd probably love it. Haven't ventured into an underpart that compares to the 25 drill and 9 (~Bach 24) backbore yet, but I'm curious to try it.
Congrats on the suspension of your safari. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: Re: The one...
cheiden wrote:
jaysonr wrote:
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9
And if the specs are right it appears to be a small-ish 3C at 0.650". My favorite comparator puts the standard Bach 3C at 0.665" with the stock Bach 1.5C measuring 0.670".
I'd probably love it. Haven't ventured into an underpart that compares to the 25 drill and 9 (~Bach 24) backbore yet, but I'm curious to try it.
Congrats on the suspension of your safari.
It feels similar to a ACB 3C (not the MV one), and a Pickett 4 in diameter. I haven't tried a regular Bach 3C in a while, but it's similar to a Yamaha 14C4 I tried along the way. The rim contour is similar to the GR 3 rim but slightly smaller. The GR 3 is almost where I stopped, but I just felt like I could go a little smaller. I kept wanting to get a hold of a GR e65, but I ended up trying this Greg Black and I haven't looked back.
The 9 backbore is smaller than a 24. Greg says that his 10 is more in line with a 24. This has a similar shape, but is smaller overall. I find it gives a great tone while being very efficient. The blow/sound-shape reminds me a little of the Pickett 10-2.
I meant to include this earlier. Here are a few notes on it, from a little over a month ago. This isn't polished, and there are a few fluffs, but I was waiting on a kid to show up for a lesson and decided to record a few things to see how it sounded up front. Just iPad mic and the camera app, nothing fancy.
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8911 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject:
You sound great on that setup. Thanks for posting.
Does the bigger drill and more open backbore make it any harder when you play higher and/or louder? Does endurance take a hit? I've got a Schilke Symphony piece with a 24 drill and bigger Schmidt backbore I've not fully acclimated to and I can't play it for very long without wearing out.
Regarding size, I use a Yamaha 14F4 on my flugel and the older 3C rim I use on the Bb feels very similar. Most 3C variants I play feel consequentially bigger and I just can't use them. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject:
cheiden wrote:
You sound great on that setup. Thanks for posting.
Does the bigger drill and more open backbore make it any harder when you play higher and/or louder? Does endurance take a hit? I've got a Schilke Symphony piece with a 24 drill and bigger Schmidt backbore I've not fully acclimated to and I can't play it for very long without wearing out.
Regarding size, I use a Yamaha 14F4 on my flugel and the older 3C rim I use on the Bb feels very similar. Most 3C variants I play feel consequentially bigger and I just can't use them.
Thanks for that encouragement. Recording myself and having it sound a way that I don't mind sharing has been the most helpful thing period for my playing.
Back to the mouthpiece...for throat size—I'm sure someone will disagree with me on this—but I almost feel that is as personal as rim diameter. And it's not just about blow resistance for me. For me, on almost any mouthpiece setup I've tried (rim/cup/backbore combo) a 25 throat has consistently given me the best sound with the most color and the most resonance. It might be my imagination, but when given a choice I almost always will go with a 25 hole, just because. This all goes out the window with GR, however, because he has some mouthpieces with a 27 throat (3HC, for example) that feel more open than a 24/24 setup to me. There are lots of variables.
To me this 9 backbore doesn't feel all that open/free-blowing. But, I will confess I generally lean more preference wide to freer blowing. It feels (to me) perhaps slightly more open/free than a Bach 10, but has more of a bigger sound shape. Again, the Pickett 10-2 gave me a similar impression.
Since you mention the Schilke M3, I will add that I had a Schilke M2* along the way that sounded awesome but would absolutely kill me—that thing felt more open than some Monette Prana stuff I tried. I know the * is even more free blowing than the regular, but I think that backbore they have on this is quite large.
All that to say, if you prefer a "standard" 27/10 type setup, this would probably feel bigger, but it's smaller than a good bit of the stuff I was trying, so it feels more efficient to me, while giving a similar sound. Also, my horn is a standard Bach 37/25 setup, and I see you have a 43/43, so I'm certain that would make quite a difference in the blow. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2
Joined: 11 Mar 2012 Posts: 462 Location: North Carolina
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject:
I've only played on 4 mouthpieces in over 25 years of playing. The 7C I started on, the Bach 3C I played for most of that 25 years, a Reeves 43C I played for a few years when I exclusively played big band lead, and the Curry 3C. I have been on for the past 3 years or so. You're right, when you find what works you really don't need anything else. I recently started to think I might need a change. I started practicing more ... and more consistently, and whatdya know? All my "mouthpiece issues" are clearing up. Lol. I'm sure for some multiple pieces work. But for me the time I put in on the horn is much better spent than a lifetime I could search for a "better" mouthpiece. _________________ Van Laar B6
Bach LR19043B
Kanstul 1600
Conn 38B
Van Laar BR3 Flugel
Blessing Super Artist cornet
Greg Black Mouthpieces
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5463 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: The one...
jaysonr wrote:
I have a confession to make. I only own one mouthpiece. In fact, for about the last two months, I've only owned one mouthpiece. I have no desire to buy another mouthpiece, ever, unless I need something more specialized one day.
Once Bri and GR pointed me in the right direction, I was set. It was a process of small adjustments, and trying different pieces in that diameter range, and quickly, I struck gold.
In a way, I feel back that I did not end up on a GR piece, simply because Brian and GR changed my playing life. I'm sure if I did a full consult where I could try everything they have I might find a better match than the GR's I've tried, but I don't need to. Unless I lose this mouthpiece, it gets damaged, or I have major dental work, I don't see that I'll ever need another.
And you know what? It's amazing. It's freeing. I didn't realize how much time I was wasting reading post related to mouthpiece minutiae, or checking the marketplace or Facebook groups for the next thing I wanted to try.
Hi Jason
I'm really pleased to hear this.
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
And it's amazing.
I totally agree about a consistent set-up improving consistency in your playing. I've stuck to one mouthpiece top for ages now, and I've experienced just the same.
I'm really pleased that you are so happy with you playing now. I've just had a listen to your clip, and I really like your sound.
Take care
Lou
The moral, don't give up on your quest, but when you strike gold, STOP, and enjoy.
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9
_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
I've always wondered... If you talk to most of the really really great players, you hear that they've been playing basically the same mouthpiece since very early on in their playing lives and they haven't really moved away from there.
I've always thought there could be two explanations for this.
1. They simply stuck with the same mouthpiece long enough to learn how to play it really well, and that's why they're great.
2. That they struck gold early on and lucked into a piece that was a close fit for them, and as a result were able to progress much further/faster than other people on mismatched equipment
Like Allen Vizzutti has basically been playing a Schilke 14A4 with minor modifications since her was in his teens.
Hakan has his 2C.
Maurice had his 1.5C
Dokshitzer had his 7E or similiar.
Nakariakov has something.
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5463 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:01 am Post subject:
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Quote:
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
I've always wondered... If you talk to most of the really really great players, you hear that they've been playing basically the same mouthpiece since very early on in their playing lives and they haven't really moved away from there.
I've always thought there could be two explanations for this.
1. They simply stuck with the same mouthpiece long enough to learn how to play it really well, and that's why they're great.
2. That they struck gold early on and lucked into a piece that was a close fit for them, and as a result were able to progress much further/faster than other people on mismatched equipment
Like Allen Vizzutti has basically been playing a Schilke 14A4 with minor modifications since her was in his teens.
Hakan has his 2C.
Maurice had his 1.5C
Dokshitzer had his 7E or similiar.
Nakariakov has something.
etc.
Hi Trumpetingbynurture
My guess is that it would be 2 followed by 1.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
Joined: 28 Jan 2002 Posts: 1149 Location: Kansas City
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:24 am Post subject: Re: The one...
jaysonr wrote:
I have a confession to make. I only own one mouthpiece. In fact, for about the last two months, I've only owned one mouthpiece. I have no desire to buy another mouthpiece, ever, unless I need something more specialized one day.
Once Bri and GR pointed me in the right direction, I was set. It was a process of small adjustments, and trying different pieces in that diameter range, and quickly, I struck gold.
In a way, I feel back that I did not end up on a GR piece, simply because Brian and GR changed my playing life. I'm sure if I did a full consult where I could try everything they have I might find a better match than the GR's I've tried, but I don't need to. Unless I lose this mouthpiece, it gets damaged, or I have major dental work, I don't see that I'll ever need another.
And you know what? It's amazing. It's freeing. I didn't realize how much time I was wasting reading post related to mouthpiece minutiae, or checking the marketplace or Facebook groups for the next thing I wanted to try.
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
And it's amazing.
The moral, don't give up on your quest, but when you strike gold, STOP, and enjoy.
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9
Let us know in a year or so if you feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, I hope you do. But at the risk of throwing a turd in the punch bowl I've felt about a new mouthpiece EXACTLY the way you do now... at least a dozen times. _________________ Bach 180S-25/ ACB 7M
Blessing 1580
Bach 181SML cornet/ Laskey 60SB
Yamaha 8315G flugel/ Reeves 42F
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 797 Location: Conway, NC
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: Re: The one...
Mark Bradley wrote:
jaysonr wrote:
I have a confession to make. I only own one mouthpiece. In fact, for about the last two months, I've only owned one mouthpiece. I have no desire to buy another mouthpiece, ever, unless I need something more specialized one day.
Once Bri and GR pointed me in the right direction, I was set. It was a process of small adjustments, and trying different pieces in that diameter range, and quickly, I struck gold.
In a way, I feel back that I did not end up on a GR piece, simply because Brian and GR changed my playing life. I'm sure if I did a full consult where I could try everything they have I might find a better match than the GR's I've tried, but I don't need to. Unless I lose this mouthpiece, it gets damaged, or I have major dental work, I don't see that I'll ever need another.
And you know what? It's amazing. It's freeing. I didn't realize how much time I was wasting reading post related to mouthpiece minutiae, or checking the marketplace or Facebook groups for the next thing I wanted to try.
Also, just playing the same piece for 2 months has done wonders for consistency. I have, for the first time in years, a consistent and confident "set". I also spend a small fraction of the time I used to spend warming up and getting things working. In fact, I can pretty much pick up the horn and play from top to bottom with minimal effort.
And it's amazing.
The moral, don't give up on your quest, but when you strike gold, STOP, and enjoy.
Now, I simply hope I can use the information I've learned trying nearly every mouthpiece under the sun in the 1-1.5C diameter range while I'm playing on my magic mouthpiece w/ a "3" diameter.
If you happen to be curious, I'm on a Greg Black 3CD/25/9
Let us know in a year or so if you feel the same way. Don't get me wrong, I hope you do. But at the risk of throwing a turd in the punch bowl I've felt about a new mouthpiece EXACTLY the way you do now... at least a dozen times.
Nope. I've felt good about a mouthpiece before also. I'll post back in a year though. _________________ Isaiah 40:8
3 John 2
Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5463 Location: Suffolk, England
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:59 am Post subject:
Trumpetingbynurture wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
Hi Trumpetingbynurture
My guess is that it would be 2 followed by 1.
Take care
Lou
That's my guess too. I guess what I'm really wondering is just how much of a factor that early player-mouthpiece match is.
Hi again
I reckon that early player-mouthpiece match is pretty important. A good initial player-mouthpiece match probably leads to initial success, which helps with motivation and interest.
Take care
Lou _________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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