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ljazztrm
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 Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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It sounds like the TS would be good for non-jazz commercial studio work where there are good mics and/or Broadway style shows that are miked well.
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burnhamd
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: Yes it would |
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Lex,
It certainly would. This piece has a dark core all through all the registers. You got to check it out,
Dan
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kehaulani
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| Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Just got a MF TM. I don't even know I'm using a mpc., it's so comfortable. Killer mouthpiece. Have been playing a Purviance 5*K4.
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burnhamd
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: That's Right |
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kehaulani,
Is it crazy or what? I told Derek, it's the first piece that literally Kisses your lips LOL. The TS is a nice addition to aid in the upper register above Double F. The TM has such a full tone, and I guess what I love about that piece is the notes are very centered.
Dan
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah guys! So true about that FBL TM. The rim, the beautiful sound. Simply awesome! Dan, I just shot an email off to Derek letting him know that if he makes you a shallower version of the TS, to put me down for one too. Maybe will give him extra incentive! best. Lex
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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Dan! Just got this from our man Derek:
'I will get that done for you guys. Trying to catch-up on things now'
Awesome!
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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formerathas
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Joined: 23 May 2017
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Hello hello.
I think this topic has been over though I made it, lol.
It is because I found this sentence
| Quote: | | There is a difference between a C-cup and a V-cup and not every player can play both. |
from the Marcinkiewicz page "Anatomy of Mouthpiece".
I learned merits of v-cups from v-cup lovers, and I guess practicing a v-cup mouthpiece would benefit my further efficiency. Anyway I'm going to search for the better peace for me.
Thank you.
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burnhamd
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| Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:17 pm Post subject: So Sorry |
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So Sorry, LOL we just got excited, wish the best on your search,
Dan
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formerathas
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:58 am Post subject: Re: So Sorry |
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| burnhamd wrote: | So Sorry, LOL we just got excited, wish the best on your search,
Dan |
Don't worry. More comments make the topic more active, thank you.
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Lionel
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| Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:04 am Post subject: Re: V-shaped cup MPs.. [Old: Shallow MPs..] |
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| formerathas wrote: | Hello.
I have posted a mouthpiece topic before. That was about what makes the difference about mouthpieces producing brighter sound.
I got many messages and decided to try a shallower mouthpiece.
Then I have played with Marcinkiewicz Shew 2 mouthpiece for several weeks, and I recognized that I would not be able to be accustomed to shallower mouthpieces.
I mainly play the 4th trumpet in the big band, so maybe shallower mouthpieces like Shew 2 were not suitable for that part. However, I totally couldn't play Shew 2 well although my peer who plays the 5th trumpet in the big band uses Schilke 15A4a really well.
Shew 2 was better for my endurance than Yamaha Shew Jazz, but sound and flexibility that I could get was far worse. Now I play with Shew Jazz with comfort.
Is there anyone who can't play shallower mouthpieces well? BTW I have relatively thin lips, and my lips didn't touch the inside cup with Shew 2, 1.75 or 1.5. The point is that I could not handle Shew 2 well. |
Shallower pieces have similarities with the largest pieces. To get the most out of your pea shooter scream piece? You've gotta be one strong trumpet player. Either that or someone very experienced playing smaller mouthpieces.
I dont mean to appear overly critical but think of what you're asking here. You've tried a pair of smaller or shallower pieces for just two weeks and declared,
"I can't play smaller mouthpieces"
Like what do you expect? Ive played shallow lead trumpet pieces off and on (but mostly on) for forty five years. And even with that it took me over the past five YEARS to come close to feeling confortable with my newest, even shallower still scream piece.
It can take years to grow accustomed to smaller and shallower pieces. And incidentally even though my main piece is nearly a "bent dime" with a hole in it? My chops are still strong enough to at least blow a decent high F on a flugelhorn piece which is far bigger and deeper than a Bach 1.
Basically? Ive got chops my friend. Not as much as I want. Nor as good as Maynard but am doing the best I can with what nature gave me. But if you want a few smaller mouthpiece tips from an old pro? Try these.
1. Never throw a mouthpiece out. Because while it may not fit you today? You may develop into it next year. Or the year after. Or five years from now.
2. If a shallow mouthpiece doesnt respond immediately but you still like certain aspects about it? Try using it after you become very fatigued. At the end of a gig.
About five years ago I was having a hard time popping a solid high F on a very rare and quite shallow Al Cass 3x6. Thats a shallow one (and worth lots of money too by the way!). Undaunted I kept the darn thing on my mouthpiece rack next to my mutes on every gig.
Sure enough the 3rd set would come around and my chops were tired! I mean really burnt. So? I popped in my 3x6. Viola! Gave me a whole another life. Like a second wind. Problems I had with the piece when not fatigued went away like magic.
As time paased I started using the piece earlier and earlier each evening. Until I finally adjusted and it became my main. Today? Its now my spare because Ive worked down into something even shallower than it. In fact I had to turn the new piece out on my own lathe. As its so shallow that no standard stock mouthpiece even remotely resembles it.
3. Initially your lower register tone will stink on the shallower pieces. Dont worry about it. As later on you can always rebore the back-bore and throat a lot larger. Most shallow pieces come in tight throats. Like 26 to 28. Unacceptable. Too shrill. For me I like an extremely shallow cup but with a monstrous throat. Between 16 to 20. Unless you're well ecperienced with drills and lathes? Have a professional do it for you. Dont forget to enlarge the back-bore when you open the throat!! As while opening the throat alone will improve the tone 200% the elongated back-bore will throw the upper register a 1/4 flat. No foolin!
Unless you open the back-bore so the narrower throat stays very short? You may actually have to play a C# in order to get your High C in tune. Either that or keep one hand on the tuning slide. Pushing in a half inch soon as you ascend above the staff.
But with the correct customization on your shallow mouthpiece? You can sound fantastic. As with some experience that shallower cup gives you incredible ownership of more register. You'll sound confident on notes which you formerly barely just squeaked out. And nothing sounds better to an audience than a trumpet and trumpet section which sounds confident.
Security in performance is another important topic which we just don't hear much talked about. One of my early private lessons profs told me this valuable piece of advice,
"Whatever you do Lionel my boy, make your notes sound controlled and comfortable. No matter how hard you're working at the time".
When gigging I never really know how much endurance is gonna be necessary to pull off the job. About five years ago on a New Years well paid gig I had the challenging lead book. Was a real baatard of a book too. With lotsa high F's and near constant high C's and D's. By the third set even the 4th trumpet player was so tired he couldnt blow a tuning note.
Funny fellow and a good musician. He did a masterful ad lib solo in his lowest register. Being too tired to even play above second line G. Meanwhile on lead my high F was gone. I took it down an octave which was okay because no one else on the section could break G top of the staff at this late hour.
And as our last set finally ended even my high C was gone. But I was the only trumpet left in the section who could produce a musical tone. And I had the lead part! Everyone else had far easier parts than me. This was a pretty decent trumpet section too. Strong amateurs all of them. Most former pros too.
Will always remember that gig. Its just one of many reasons I always rely on the shallowest piece which will do the job. Not for just the high notes but for the lower ones too. Because on that night I was at least able to carry the section with something. As Al Cass himself told me this over 40 years ago,
"Keep playin that screamer son! Even when your chops are gone and you've got a high note to blow? You may not get all of it but you'll always get a piece of it".
His words being among the wisest Ive ever heard.
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Lionel - A question out of curiosity..I'm playing a gig in Louie's backyard in Corona, Queens and waiting for it to start - killing time. Why do you open up the throats in these extra shallow mouthpieces to mellow out the sound? The mouthpiece I play for lead and high note stuff without a mic is a mouthpiece that sounds extremely annoying to me in the practice room. It is extremely bright and cutting..and just…obnoxious! When not playing small group jazz, I get into situations where I do quite a lot of gigs like this.. and, man, in those situations, I LOVE the sound, ease, and efficiency of cutting through everything with that mouthpiece. I just don’t understand why you don’t switch to a deeper piece for a mellower sound. It’s not a criticism or anything. I can tell you I know one pro player who has probably been playing professionally about 50 years now, and works around my area. He’s certainly played and recorded with everyone. His philosophy is opposite yours. Although he does a lot of lead stuff that needs a bright, cutting sound, what he does is tightens the throat and backbore, but doesn’t change his cup depth from a Bach 3C depth. His logic behind this is that he feels he can play a lot of different types of work on the same mouthpiece. I have never gotten to ask him yet why he doesn’t just switch to a shallower or deeper cup depending on what his sound needs are. Obviously, what he does works extremely well from him. From what you write in your posts, it sounds like your approach works really well for you as well.
Is it just that you want to feel like you want to only have one mouthpiece for everything? I’ve written before that I am a big advocate of the Storks’ philosophy: http://storkcustom.com/doctor-mouthpiece/ Just for the sake of my own efficiency. Find a rim that fits my lips/teeth/facial structure, ideally stick with that one rim, and change the underparts. From trumpet to flugel. I do think what Lynn Nicholson says about true straight MF style V cups is correct. You can use bigger throats with those and they work well that way…but they also work well with a standard throat, too, I find.
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sergeybondarev
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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I expect my order from Derek. These are interesting mouthpieces.
Legends MF HG
Legends MF FBL TM
Legends MF FBL TS
I hope that I can master them. There are different opinions. Deep, shallow ... Thanks to all colleagues for the information. I hope this topic will continue?
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John Mohan
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bach_again
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ljazztrm wrote: | Lionel - A question out of curiosity..I'm playing a gig in Louie's backyard in Corona, Queens and waiting for it to start - killing time. Why do you open up the throats in these extra shallow mouthpieces to mellow out the sound? The mouthpiece I play for lead and high note stuff without a mic is a mouthpiece that sounds extremely annoying to me in the practice room. It is extremely bright and cutting..and just…obnoxious! When not playing small group jazz, I get into situations where I do quite a lot of gigs like this.. and, man, in those situations, I LOVE the sound, ease, and efficiency of cutting through everything with that mouthpiece. I just don’t understand why you don’t switch to a deeper piece for a mellower sound. It’s not a criticism or anything. I can tell you I know one pro player who has probably been playing professionally about 50 years now, and works around my area. He’s certainly played and recorded with everyone. His philosophy is opposite yours. Although he does a lot of lead stuff that needs a bright, cutting sound, what he does is tightens the throat and backbore, but doesn’t change his cup depth from a Bach 3C depth. His logic behind this is that he feels he can play a lot of different types of work on the same mouthpiece. I have never gotten to ask him yet why he doesn’t just switch to a shallower or deeper cup depending on what his sound needs are. Obviously, what he does works extremely well from him. From what you write in your posts, it sounds like your approach works really well for you as well.
Is it just that you want to feel like you want to only have one mouthpiece for everything? I’ve written before that I am a big advocate of the Storks’ philosophy: http://storkcustom.com/doctor-mouthpiece/ Just for the sake of my own efficiency. Find a rim that fits my lips/teeth/facial structure, ideally stick with that one rim, and change the underparts. From trumpet to flugel. I do think what Lynn Nicholson says about true straight MF style V cups is correct. You can use bigger throats with those and they work well that way…but they also work well with a standard throat, too, I find. |
Al Cass changed throats to change the timbre.
This was maybe an old-school way, but I find this absolutely true: any time I have opened a piece, it has been darker - and in a good few occasions I have had a spare of the original to compare.
Best,
Mike
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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You are one lucky cat Sergey! The Legends TM is the nicest sounding jazz mouthpiece I’ve ever played. The rim is amazing in it’s sense of comfort. If you are a smaller diameter mouthpiece cat, this piece would probably work great for you in small group jazz and classical situations. Before this, I was using the Callet JAZZ as my small group jazz piece, and that’s another great sounding small diameter jazz piece. But the TM is a straight V-cup and the Callet is more of a deeper C-cup. Something about that straight V shape just sounds extra-good to me and I can do jazz inflections, and things of that nature, with great ease on this piece. It is like adding more of a ‘flugel-like’ facility to a trumpet. I can really color the sound how I want easily with this piece. Really, really sweet.
The Legends MF HG is a fantastic lead piece and I use it with a Warburton ‘H’ or 6 backbore usually.
I don’t have the TS yet but Derek (guy who makes the pieces/owns Legends) is working with Dan Burnham and I on a shallower version of the TS.. A ‘TS-X’ model I think he may call it. Dan has the TS and has a great video on his site about the TM, TS, and HG.. To me, the TS sounds like the perfect commercial piece when you are ‘on-mic’ and/or just prefer something a little deeper if you bottom out on very shallow cups. I find the rim feel on the TM (which would be the same rim on the TS) to be a little smaller than the HG and even more comfortable. It may just be the most comfortable rim I’ve ever played.
Mike - Good point on that throat thing man. I love the Al Cass pieces as well (and the Legends ‘take’ on the Cass 3x5 that I have). Imo, Al was brilliant in what he came up with in his pieces..For me, even the ‘3’ series is a little bit bigger diameter than I’m used to, so I haven’t played my Legends 3x5 on a lot of gigs yet.. But Al also had shallower and deeper cups too, besides changing the throat size.. Your pic/vid doesn’t come up on what you posted, so I’m not sure what it is.. If it’s something about the Al Cass mouthpiece design, I hope you can get it working. I know Booker Little played a 1-28 piece..what a core he had to his sound! And I have heard Red Rodney played a 3x3 for a lot of things. There is some video footage of him on YT and you can see him with the Cass piece. I think a lot of cats back then, especially jazz and lead players, used Al Cass pieces. Of course Dizzy..I’ve seen pics of Thad Jones with a Cass piece too. All the best, Lex
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ljazztrm
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Location: Queens and upstate, NY
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Oh..didn't see your links John.. Our friend Mr.Mohan has posted links to the vids I was talking about.
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bach_again
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ljazztrm
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:03 am Post subject: |
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Oh cool deal man, that's the one! Yeah, very good info on there. Sometimes I see some original Al Cass's crop up on EBAY, so you might get lucky there..or put out a WTB on the marketplace.
Derek has his take on the Cass pieces. The 3x3, 3x4, 3x5, and 3x7. I have the 3x5 and it's a killer piece but a bit big in diameter for me. All the very best, Lex
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Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
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superviking805
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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Dan B. has been kind enough to coach me on the Protocol. I have been playing the X-piece for a few months and am now ready to try a v-cup for concert/pop’s band. Dan suggested the Legends FBL TS. I received the TS last night and tried it out for a few minutes to see if it would work and then left for rehearsal. I was so excited I forgot to pack my usual piece so only had the FBL TS.
My initial impressions playing with the New Horizons Band were, this is more mello than I expected. I wanted something equivalent to my George Rawlins #2 in a V cup and the TS may be a little more legit, shouldn’t be a problem. However it also felt a little quieter too, seemed like I wasn’t hearing myself as loud as usual. Projection was a little weaker. Accented notes seem to need a bit more to really bark.
Blending was very good. I think my wonky intonation notes, low D/Db, actually sound a bit more centered. I was worried about endurance on a new MP but was very strong by the end of rehearsal. It does not have “power assist” like the MF HG in the upper register but this mp sounds and plays very smooth.
Here’s the best part. On the last tune its really working for me. I was much louder and could bang the accents. We ended with a Basie Tribute in a high B. My performance ceiling is a C# but the MD was sitting on the last note for a long time so I walked the B up to E and back no fuss. Never was able to do that before. I swear the mp told me to, “go on, you can do it!”
I think the TS is the ideal crossover piece for me. Not too hot like the HG and I think I would not have liked the TM as it would be too dark. |
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burnhamd
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Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:43 pm Post subject: Legends FBL TS |
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superviking805
What you described about the TS regarding its sound was the same I discovered. The TS is a great legit piece with wonderful comfort. It plays well and blends well with others LOL. What I have been asking Derek for is the same rim and diameter with a shallower cup and a tighter backbore. If he does that, my mouthpiece quest will be over. I am wanting the bright cutting edge you get with the HG but with the same diameter and rim that is on both the TS and TM. I have requested a shallower cup and a Manhattan backbore.
With the TS I have better centering on the notes regardless the range. The Trifecta is what I'm lookng for. I personally don't like changing diameters, I want a mouthpiece designed for the work I'm doing.
Also, I might add, the TM is great for Jazz, orchestra etc., It has an even darker sound. I will be using that one in the coming months as I start to add more Christmas tracks to the website.
I'm glad you had a good experience with it at the end of the show. Give it a little bit, it grows on you. Also, keep in mind, V-cups are different animals, they take a little bit to get used to. In closing the short letter LOL, what I have found with V-Cups IMHO they have less resistance and will take all the air you put through them.
Have fun with your TS,
Dan
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Callet Jazz Gen. II www.callet.com
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