Joined: 25 Mar 2010 Posts: 5299 Location: Central Texas
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:57 am Post subject:
gabriel127 wrote:
... my father had several of his [Herb Alpert] albums, and I was able to play everything on those albums and sounded just like him (as was told by my jr. high school stage band director) when I was in the 7th grade. There was never anything Alpert did that had me saying, gee I hope I'll be able to play like that some day, because I already could.
Okay, this is going on the humor wall in the practice room. _________________ "Music is like candy, you throw the (w)rappers away."
... my father had several of his [Herb Alpert] albums, and I was able to play everything on those albums and sounded just like him (as was told by my jr. high school stage band director) when I was in the 7th grade. There was never anything Alpert did that had me saying, gee I hope I'll be able to play like that some day, because I already could.
Okay, this is going on the humor wall in the practice room.
Joined: 03 Dec 2001 Posts: 2681 Location: Queens and upstate, NY
Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:40 am Post subject:
Wow, what a thread! Even one of the best trumpet players in the world said he just couldn't keep up the routine of being a great jazz and classical soloist at the same time (of course I'm referring here to Wynton). Being a great jazz player, orchestral player, lead player, high note player, polka band player, cornet soloist, etc. all at the same time just doesn't seem feasible for one lifetime. And, in most cases, players usually gravitate towards certain preferences in the music they truly love to play.
Since this thread is about range, imo, it is possible to become a great jazz player, a great commercial player with great sightreading chops, a great lead player, and a great high note player all at the same time. Depending on your approach to the instrument, several of these categories can intersect quite well. And I find, if you are developed as a commercial player with a great sound and sightreading chops, just a mouthpiece change and some familiarity with classical musicality can able you to do a good amount of classical gigs such as brass quintet or weddings. Are you going to be able to do it as well as someone who devotes all their practice time to orchestral or solo classical playing? Of course not, but you certainly can play classical pieces for a wedding musically and/or a brass quintet gig.
As a pro freelance player, I don't come across these players who have great range and little endurance - simply because they don't get called for gigs - at least the type of gigs that require a more extreme range on the trumpet - because they're simply not going to be able to 'do the gig'! To me, range and endurance go exactly hand in hand - even if you are not a pro player and just play a lot every day for your own enjoyment.
And as far as every trumpet player wanting a screaming high range, I can tell you this isn't true. I know numerous pro jazz and classical players who are not at all interested in playing high notes. Some of them even have a double C+ range, but just use it when practicing exercises for total embouchure development - it just doesn't really sound good to them to play in music. This is odd to me because I happen to love high note playing and even use it on my flugelhorn in small group jazz settings. But to each his/her own. There are some players who think playing pedal tones while playing music sounds good..go figure!
Speaking of great classical cornet/trumpet soloists who had great range and endurance - has anyone ever checked out George Swift? At some point in his career he played a Zottola 66B which is a big diameter and deep cup mouthpiece.
_________________ Mpcs: Jim New-Manley Jazz1/Jazz2/Jazz4/Lead3. Legends MF1. Reeves 39EX/HV. Frost 39MVD. Flugel: Jim NewMF3. Jim New-Manley F1+F2. Pickett MF. Reeves HF.
Trumpets: THE LYNNZHORN!!/Stomvi Forte pocket
Flugel: Manchester Brass Pro Model
Www.LexSamu.com
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Southern U.S.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:32 am Post subject:
Quote:
RandyTX wrote:
gabriel127 wrote:
... my father had several of his [Herb Alpert] albums, and I was able to play everything on those albums and sounded just like him (as was told by my jr. high school stage band director) when I was in the 7th grade. There was never anything Alpert did that had me saying, gee I hope I'll be able to play like that some day, because I already could.
Okay, this is going on the humor wall in the practice room.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't know why you find that funny. When Wayne Bergeron cites being able to play double C in the 7th grade, do you post that up on your humor wall too? If you couldn't play everything that Herb Alpert plays by your second or third year playing the horn, I feel sorry for you.
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 218 Location: Southern U.S.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:40 am Post subject:
I agree with Lex totally in that range and endurance go hand-in-hand if you're doing things right.
These "five-minute-wonders" are probably using some kind of wig setup that allows them to squeak out some high notes, but is not mechanically sound enough to be able to articulate, move around with facility between registers, and do the rest of the things required in trumpet playing.
RandyTX wrote:
gabriel127 wrote:
... my father had several of his [Herb Alpert] albums, and I was able to play everything on those albums and sounded just like him (as was told by my jr. high school stage band director) when I was in the 7th grade. There was never anything Alpert did that had me saying, gee I hope I'll be able to play like that some day, because I already could.
Okay, this is going on the humor wall in the practice room.
My thoughts exactly.
I don't know why you find that funny. When Wayne Bergeron cites being able to play double C in the 7th grade, do you post that up on your humor wall too? If you couldn't play everything that Herb Alpert plays by your second or third year playing the horn, I feel sorry for you.
1. Herb Alpert is lots of fun to listen to.
2. I don't think I've ever done it, but I can see telling a young player that they sound like some famous performer as a means of encouragement. That doesn't mean it's 100% true. "Hey man, you sound just like Herb Alpert." It certainly shouldn't be used to diminish the famous performer.
3. Even though they played relatively simple music, that band was fantastic.
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 612 Location: Oakville, CT
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:12 am Post subject:
Dear xxxxxxx,
I am a freshman at a large southeastern university. I play trumpet and have fantastic range. I met a girl in class one day and when she found out I could hammer double C's all night long, she...
In 5th grade I "think" I could play all the notes from a Herb Alpert tune. He has never been about range.
Honestly, through this thread I have actually listened to more of his stuff than before (grew up listening to Maynard, Faddis, Arturo, Vizzutti, Doc, Tyzik, Cacia, etc ) and can better appreciate what he does well.
I can STILL not play like Herb Alpert does, but don't feel sorry for me... He can't play like I do either, but he has an ace up his sleeve...
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 Posts: 7080 Location: Houston, TX.
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject:
EdMann wrote:
I can guarantee, Wayne's a hell of a lot funnier than gabriel.
And here's what goes hand in hand: music and music. Puleeze....
ed
We've seen guys like this here before, they generally escalate until they actually break forum rules and get bounced. It sometimes takes a long time, as in the case of the infamous CK, but eventually they'll get themselves kicked out.
Speaking for myself, I think the quickest way to discourage someone like this is to give them NO attention. That's my plan, even after he sees this and posts something likely inflammatory in response.
ZERO attention.....beyond this of course.😉
Brad _________________ When asked if he always sounds great:
"I always try, but not always, because the horn is merciless, unpredictable and traitorous." - Arturo Sandoval
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject:
If all it takes is high notes to get the chicks, than Kirt Thompson must have chicks coming out of the woodwork, and a large supply of penicillin. LOL _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject:
By the way if getting chicks is your goal just get a Harley, it's much easier and takes less practice. _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate
Joined: 16 Sep 2011 Posts: 118 Location: Wilmington, De
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject:
Jerry Freedman wrote:
dcjway wrote:
By the way if getting chicks is your goal just get a Harley, it's much easier and takes less practice.
Had a Harley. Wasn't that successful. In math terms Guess having a Harley is necessary but not sufficient
You should have tried girls that don't know math. _________________ Shires Destino III
1971 Bach Vindabona
1947 Martin Committee (Large Bore)
1935 NY Bach 26-59 silver plate
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject:
Hi Bryant,
I'm just coming to this thread, having been away for a while and not all that frequent here lately. Wow, has this thread been everywhere, from pro- and anti- Herb Alpert to personal testimonials on whether a high E is important.
Let me take this somewhere else. You seem to think you have an embouchure problem. If you are trying to do things that you can't do, then you probably do. It isn't just the high notes, but how easy things are. If the high D is difficult, then the notes around it aren't easy, either. So I'd look at it as an easy high range indicating that other technical things are accomplished easily, too.
You mention playing on the red of your top lip. That might mean you are playing upstream, which is a fairly rare (15% of players) embouchure which is little understood by a lot of teachers. However, this upstream embouchure usually means an innately easy high register, so something is amiss somewhere.
If I were you, I'd take this question over to the Reinhardt forum and describe your embouchure in more detail, maybe with a photo or two. Maybe someone there can give you some useful feedback. If this doesn't work, I would try to set up an in person consult with one of the Reinhardt teachers that frequent that forum. I had a lot of embouchure trouble, but three extended lessons, about eight hours in total, fixed my problems. Now my main issue is lack of practice! But that's an issue due to some ongoing medical problems which should soon be fixed.
Even tho' I'm not playing, I could pick up a horn today and play above high C. It's the embouchure, man. If I were getting ready to go to school, I'd get my embouchure ducks in a row, particularly when it won't take all that much time, once you are on the right path. You cannot expect that your professor at college will know much about embouchure. Some do and some don't, confining their knowledge to musicianship and performance issues. But they will expect you to have your technique under control. So fix it now. _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .
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