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trickg
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Joined: 02 Jan 2002
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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 Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Croquethed wrote: | Ha! I was married for 15 years before I started the comeback thing, and my wife looked at me real funny when I said I was popping $1500 for a new horn.
Now she talks me up to folks like I'm Clark Terry. And I have a D, too (Eb sometimes, but not to brag about). |
I've actually got an Eb, and even an E at about 75/25 hit/miss. I can almost always blaze into it ripping up to it at the beginning of "Signed, Sealed, Delivered." The thing with the D is that I've got that from the beginning of the first set to the very end of the last set. Sometimes we'll end the night with "Feeling Alright" - the Joe Cocker version with horns added. Our "outro" on that song ends on "feelin' alright" which is a C on "feeling" and a D on "Alright" - I take it up every time and never miss it. (Now that I've said that, watch me clam it the next time we play it.)
One thing I'll say about Herb Alpert, is that I never realized how effortless his range up to 2nd ledger C sounded - honestly, I never realized that those tunes were written up there until I had to play a couple of them. The wedding band I'm in often covers "Tijuana Taxi" in the music-to-be-ignored-by 1st set, and that tune isn't exactly easy to play - at least not to play it and have it sound that effortless.
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Patrick Gleason
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Trickg, what key does your band do Signed, Sealed in? |
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trickg
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | Trickg, what key does your band do Signed, Sealed in? |
Off the top of my head I don't know the key other than I think it's the original key...or not. On occasion we switch, but usually it's the original key.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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bnsd
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| original key is F concert, and I play it (too) often... I'm obviously missing something from the original because I don't think it goes above a staff G. I do take certain phrases up an octave, but it is so repetitive, it gets tiring fast in that octave |
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deleted_user_02066fd
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| EdMann wrote: | This dissing of Herb Alpert is ridiculous. His early recordings were hits not because of connections or technique, but because he was, and is, a great musician. Gaining a range above the constructs of the instrument is only important for a narrow aspect of what's expected of a player. Musicianship is everything.
I had a conversation with Herb about 28 years ago at a radio publicity event, told him that I played (past tense at the time), and he went right into it. "I had range I could use, but I found early on that it wasn't saying anything." I never forgot that. Art Farmer talked about the appropriate range of the instrument as everything under high C, if I remember his quote correctly. I've learned a healthy respect for the altissimo range and practice up to dubba C most days, but I'm never gonna get the call to do that. Strangely, I get called.
ed |
Well put. Never got a chance to hear Art Farmer live but have always loved his playing.
I saw Herb and Lani Hall 3 years ago. One of the 5 best shows I have ever gone to and I've seen a lot of shows. Freddie Hubbard, Maynard, Billy Joel, Elton John etc. Herb plays in the cash register!
Herb and Lani were amazing. He played nonstop for 2-2.5 hours and never sat down. He was almost 80. Lani is worth the price of admission all by herself. A wonderful singer and absolutely gorgeous. Pictures don't do her justice.
Range is nice but it doesn't mean that you can play. It's like saying someone is a great basketball player because they can dunk. The playgrounds are full of guys who can jump but can't play.
One player that comes to mind is Woody Shaw. He didn't have a whole lot of range but just killed everything he played. I saw him twice and he just blew me away. Nice guy as well. Warren Vache is a beast and I've never heard him play much past a high c.
When I last played on a regular basis I was good to an F-G over high C. I didn't use it much. Depending on the playing situation no one would have known I could do that. |
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | Trickg, what key does your band do Signed, Sealed in? |
Off the top of my head I don't know the key other than I think it's the original key...or not. On occasion we switch, but usually it's the original key. |
Cool, was just trying to figure out why you would be playing an E at beginning like you mentioned. |
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RandyTX
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Regular, day-in day-out stuff for me lately has very little higher than E's or an occasional F. One particularly grueling chart in one band has F#'s all over it, which I occasionally manage to pull off if it comes early enough in the set list. 
I've never been much of a 'high note' guy, but anything that tops out around an Eb I'm good for pretty much whenever.
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | trickg wrote: | | Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | Trickg, what key does your band do Signed, Sealed in? |
Off the top of my head I don't know the key other than I think it's the original key...or not. On occasion we switch, but usually it's the original key. |
Cool, was just trying to figure out why you would be playing an E at beginning like you mentioned. |
This one might be one of the few that we do that isn't in the original key. I'll check it out later when I've got the book and I can check it against the original.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Ed Kennedy
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bach_again wrote: | | Great post, Tim! |
Same here. BTW I met Dave Jandorf when he was out with Holiday on Ice in the late '60's in Waterloo, Iowa. My dad was the local contractor for the band and Dave and the drummer had Thanksgiving dinner at our house. I recall that he had a couple of old F. Bessons. I was home from college and played bass on the show. |
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Lionel
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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Range can be a variable factor. While playing in a rehearsal band a week or so ago the guy sitting in and sharing lead with me had an impressive F above double C. Heck I don't have that on the bandstand. Have played it a number of times in practice but I'm not gonna even try to pick off that note off during a session. So the kid actually hits a written E above double C! Nails it good.
First time I'd ever seen the note written. Lol. So I kept feeding him lead trumpet parts. Every other chart as it got passed out. He kept taking them for a spell but then started to refuse. It turned out he was what Maynard called a "five minute hero".
This predicament I once found myself in. Except that I didnt have F above double C. Just nice high G's. Well worked like the Dickens to build my endurance. So that today my high G is good for much longer.
The "five minute hero" is apparently more common than I once thought. Apparently my former high school music director was one too. The reason he privately complained of endurance issues. And at the time I thought that he was just making up his complaints. It never occurred to me back then that people with triple C capability could have serious endurance issues. But they certainly can.
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Lionel is a true iron man. |
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gabriel127
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not dissing Herb Alpert. It's just that my father had several of his albums, and I was able to play everything on those albums and sounded just like him (as was told by my jr. high school stage band director) when I was in the 7th grade. There was never anything Alpert did that had me saying, gee I hope I'll be able to play like that some day, because I already could.
Then my father started playing some of Al Hirt's "Dan's Pier 600" albums and I realized, wow, I'm not as good as I thought I was. It took me a lot more effort to copy Hirt's stuff because it was so much more technically difficult, faster, and higher.
Then, my father brought home Doc Severinsen's Brass Roots album. It blew my mind and then I REALLY knew I had a lot of practicing to do.
So all I'm saying is that I never had any difficulty whatsoever mimicking Herb Alpert's music even in my second year as a trumpet student.
To me, Alpert's strengths were that he had a nice sound and a nice interpretation of that style of music. It was easy-listening and easy-playing, too.
Last edited by gabriel127 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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gabriel127
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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By the way, regarding the chicks thing:
I recently read Toni Tennille's book which is somewhat of an autobiography that talks mostly about her relationship with Daryl Dragon (the "Captain").
In the book, she pointed out that Dragon was not the first guy she slept with. She indicated that in one of the acts she played with before meeting Dragon, she lost her virginity to the "lead trumpet player." She didn't settle for some guy who turns red in the face and his eyes pop out and his weak chin goes in, topping out at a high C or D. Chicks want the guy who can pound out the high notes because that excites the crowd and it excites them, too.
In most bands, the lead trumpet is the voice of the entire band. Everyone must try and match the style and interpretation of the lead trumpet player. As such, the lead trumpet player must be strong and play with assertiveness and confidence, so there's a personality trait that goes along with playing lead trumpet.
The way I see it, unless you're the lead dog, the view is always the same.
I'm not knocking the guys who can't play lead, because after all, somebody's got to play those parts. |
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EdMann
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Yikes man. Calm down. Without the lower parts to support the lead, you have no lead. |
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Fuzzy Dunlop
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| gabriel, please post some audio of your chick-magnet lead playing! |
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trickg
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Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | trickg wrote: | | Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | | Trickg, what key does your band do Signed, Sealed in? |
Off the top of my head I don't know the key other than I think it's the original key...or not. On occasion we switch, but usually it's the original key. |
Cool, was just trying to figure out why you would be playing an E at beginning like you mentioned. |
This one might be one of the few that we do that isn't in the original key. I'll check it out later when I've got the book and I can check it against the original. |
This is one of the few - our chart is a minor 3rd down, so instead of a G in the staff, I start on an E in the staff, and rip up to the 4th space E, unless I take it up an octave, in which case those E's become 3rd ledger E's.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
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"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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bnsd
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="EdMann"]Yikes man. Calm down. Without the lower parts to support the lead, you have no lead.[/quote][quote]
I take great pride in supporting a good lead player. I play lead on occasion also, but I really don't have the range to do it all night. Playing 2nd in a strong and "supportive" way is within my range and is very satisfying.
I find it funny that "chicks dig lead players"... I get way more traction in rock/soul bands, as the only trumpet player [/quote] |
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HERMOKIWI
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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There are more self proclaimed "lead players" today than the number of real lead players born in the last three centuries.
It all depends on the standards being applied and I apply an extremely high standard. High chops and endurance are expected. What separates real lead players from self proclaimed "lead players" is dominant sound, extreme accuracy and exemplary stylistic interpretation.
There's more to being a "lead player" than just happening to play the lead book. I heard the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra a few weeks ago. Nick Marchione was covering the lead book and he was awesome. Lead players at his level are few and far between.
"Sparkling Burgundy" is defined as "Bad wine made worse by carbonation." A lot of self proclaimed "lead players" are not very accomplished players who are made worse by their inflated egos.
To respond to the OP's question, once a player has the reliable range to cover the book in question further high chops are irrelevant, they aren't important at all and the notion that you need range to F above double C to be a lead player, or that such range makes you a "lead player" is ridiculous.
The most important player in the band is the drummer. Self proclaimed "lead players" need to get over themselves.
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delano
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| Posted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| HERMOKIWI wrote: | There are more self proclaimed "lead players" today than the number of real lead players born in the last three centuries.
It all depends on the standards being applied and I apply an extremely high standard. High chops and endurance are expected. What separates real lead players from self proclaimed "lead players" is dominant sound, extreme accuracy and exemplary stylistic interpretation.
There's more to being a "lead player" than just happening to play the lead book. I heard the Vanguard Jazz Orchestra a few weeks ago. Nick Marchione was covering the lead book and he was awesome. Lead players at his level are few and far between.
"Sparkling Burgundy" is defined as "Bad wine made worse by carbonation." A lot of self proclaimed "lead players" are not very accomplished players who are made worse by their inflated egos.
To respond to the OP's question, once a player has the reliable range to cover the book in question further high chops are irrelevant, they aren't important at all and the notion that you need range to F above double C to be a lead player, or that such range makes you a "lead player" is ridiculous.
The most important player in the band is the drummer. Self proclaimed "lead players" need to get over themselves. |
This seems to be the definite answer even for the virginity question, they want a real man , no bragging one. For the Herb Alpert case, Armstrong would say: it's all about phrasing. Davis, playing only one shivering last note would say: Try That! |
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Croquethed
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| Posted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:57 am Post subject: |
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I couldn't help myself. I looked up Toni Tennille's book on Google Books.
The lead trumpet player became a CPA. |
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