Left Hand Grip on Cornet

[SiteReader]

I received my new Thomann CR 400 cornet 8 days ago. Very happy with sound, appearance, and price. But I’m having trouble with the left-hand grip.

Unlike some other cornets, the lead pipe on this one enters the third valve casing by taking a downward, right-angle turn at the third valve. You can see what I mean in the first picture of the cornet on the Thomann site https://www.thomannmusic.com/thomann_cr400_kornett.htm

This positioning prevents all three fingers of the left hand from wrapping around the valve casing, which was the way I always did it with my trumpet. In fact the only grip I can get is to hold the valve casing with first finger, reach the second and third fingers around the downward- directed section of lead pipe that enters the third valve, and use pinky for the slide. Trouble is, that hand-hold stretches my second and third finger and leaves my hand feeling cramped after 5 to 10 minutes of practice.

Will I get used to it, or should I use the 30-day return policy on this horn? Will a cornet with a more typical wrap allow three-finger grip, or do they all prevent it? I’ve always had a 1955 Conn Victor trumpet, and only held someone else’s cornet a few times.

I want a shepherd’s crook type with the mellower sound. I am a “comeback” player—age 72. I put “comeback” in quotes because I never was that good. Been playing on and off (mostly off) since age 9 or 10, but always hit a plateau of weak lip, low endurance. Now I'm up to Lesson 4 (practicing every day for 22 days) of Claude Gordon’s “Systematic Approach to Daily Practice,” with some signs of improvement already, and high hopes for the future.

[Richard III]

This is pretty standard for cornets. My fingers lay across the top of the third valve slide. For a ring, my ring finger is naturally in the ring.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[SiteReader]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Richard III. I looked up your White Clevelander cornet, and noticed it has the same configuration of lead pipe into third valve as mine.

I wonder if someone with the other configuration--where the pipe extends past third valve and doubles back--could say if that leaves more room for grip on valve casing.

[bnsd]

I have 4 cornets... A York, and Olds and two getzen... they ALL are cramped on the left hand. They are a compact horn, and I have fairly big hands. My 3rd and 4th fingers go under the slide, middle finger in the ring and 1st finger around the valves.

[Richard III]

[p76]

That's a pretty standard wrap for a Shepherd's Crook cornet. Some cornets have longer valves, and so you can fit your hand above the leadpipe.

What I do is not wrap my hands around, but rather hold the cornet more with my fingertips - helps with avoiding pressure as well.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

[Crazy Finn]

[nieuwguyski]

The only other common wrap for a shepherd's-crook cornet has a forward-pointing crook instead of that 90-degree-downward tubing:

http://www.wwbw.com/Bach-184ML-Stradivarius-Series-Bb-Cornet-483617.wwbw?source=TWWR5J1BB&cntry=us&currency=usd&gclid=Cj0KCQjwub7NBRDJARIsAP7wlT9jpFO--IIsiTcvm31RfqFKApXe7hrovOTiQGtrseGMlGld1pqEJ7QaAswwEALw_wcB

...which makes wrapping your fingers around the valve casing even more difficult.

There are other cornet wraps, like the Conn 80A and 5/9A, Olds Recording, and King Master, that allow you to wrap two fingers around the valves above the third-valve slide without interference.

But those designs won't necessarily be welcomed with open arms in some groups.

...At least that's my impression. I enjoy playing cornet, don't own any sort of "traditional" Bb shepherd's-crook cornet, and do own a Conn 80A, 5A, and Olds Recording.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[Richard III]

I looked at my York Eminence this morning and noted the angle of the tube entering the third valve is offset more than the one you pictured. So not all shepherd crook cornets are the same.

[img]york_eminence_cam2 by genevie7, on Flickr[/img]
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[SiteReader]

Would that space on the York leave enough room for the third finger to fit under it, Richard III? I can almost squeeze my third finger under the pipe on my Thomann CR400. Another 1/2", or even 10mm, would allow it--not big fingers. But it's just an academic question at this point, as I think the York would be out of my price range.

Now that I know the Shepherd's crook instrument is usually a more crowded hand- hold, I'm getting used to the idea. I'm implementing the suggestion to try to hold a little less tightly with some success. My hand still get's tired, but the time of comfort is stretching out. I'm still making daily progress with the Claude Gordon book, and that is the most rewarding news for me.

I'm thinking now that I'll keep the Thomann cornet, and combine it with my old Conn Victor trumpet in my practice sessions. I can get a half step (sometimes whole step) higher on the Victor, but I like the sound of the cornet, especially in low and middle range.

Thanks to all who've contributed to this thread. I'm very pleased with the promptness, knowledge, and good fellowship of the responders.

[Richard III]

Realize that with the York with the triggers, you are wrapping around those as well. My hand position is different on different instruments. I suggest you just get used to that.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Bflatman]

Instruments did not used to have third adjustable valve slides either by ring or trigger. The Cornet wraps were devised when there was no need to use an adjustable slide during play and any comfortable grip could be used.

I have 3 shepherds crook Cornets and one long Cornet, One of the shepherds crook and the long cornet dont have a slideable third slide and are comfortable to hold.

The other two shepherds crook Cornets are even worse than your Cornet, the tube moves towards the bell before it rises making even less space than on your instrument but I have never had any problem holding them, the tubing never interferes with my left hand. Experiment with your grip, I cant be so odd as to be the only guy without a problem on these instruments.

The tube on Cornets does not just rise up where the fingers rest, it moves away from the valve block as it rises. This creates enough space for the fingers to grip the block.

Maybe its your grip, I dont use a fist grip, I use a gentle grip and only my finger tips rest on the third valve block. There is plenty of space and my hands are not tiny they are normal sized. I am having difficulty trying to have the same issue that you have.

Surely if the instruments could not be held and played easily players would have refused to buy the unplayable instruments and the manufacturers would have abandoned the design a hundred years ago.