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Villanovaswo
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Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:31 pm Post subject: Cornet Recommendations |
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Looking for used cornet recommendations for my son who is just starting out after two years of piano. So far I have recommendations for Getzen, Yamaha, and Bach. A few questions:
-What’s a good price for a used student Bach trumpet?
-What’s a good price for a used Getzen 300 or 400?
-What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen?
V/R,
Roger |
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etc-etc
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| The issue is not as much the price as it is what you are getting for the price paid. Whether a cornet or a trumpet, you want an instrument in a reasonably good shape. No leaks, no major dents, no red rot, valves and slides moving smoothly. Getzen is a very good choice. |
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dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Cornet Recommendations |
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| Villanovaswo wrote: | Looking for used cornet recommendations for my son who is just starting out after two years of piano. So far I have recommendations for Getzen, Yamaha, and Bach. A few questions:
-What’s a good price for a used student Bach trumpet?
-What’s a good price for a used Getzen 300 or 400?
-What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen?
V/R,
Roger |
Roger,
Cornet or trumpet? Your title of post says cornet, your note says trumpet. If I were buying a beginner a cornet, I would find a good used Olds Ambassador on eBay and buy it. I would not go over $125 shipped, and I would see if I could find a Los Angeles version. It should serve you well, should be easy to put into top shape and to keep in good condition.
I would not spend more on another instrument until he shows he is interested, and capable of handling a more fragile instrument with maturity.
Hope this helps,
AL
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:25 am Post subject: Re: Cornet Recommendations |
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| dr_trumpet wrote: | | Villanovaswo wrote: | Looking for used cornet recommendations for my son who is just starting out after two years of piano. So far I have recommendations for Getzen, Yamaha, and Bach. A few questions:
-What’s a good price for a used student Bach trumpet?
-What’s a good price for a used Getzen 300 or 400?
-What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen?
V/R,
Roger |
Roger,
Cornet or trumpet? Your title of post says cornet, your note says trumpet. If I were buying a beginner a cornet, I would find a good used Olds Ambassador on eBay and buy it. I would not go over $125 shipped, and I would see if I could find a Los Angeles version. It should serve you well, should be easy to put into top shape and to keep in good condition.
I would not spend more on another instrument until he shows he is interested, and capable of handling a more fragile instrument with maturity.
Hope this helps,
AL |
Doc,
This helps a lot, thanks! I meant cornet; local music store suggested pocket trumpet because of my sons age (may son is about to turn 8 but big for his age), but the wise people on this forum suggested a cornet. I will check out the Olds on E-bay at the price point you suggested. How do I know if the Olds trumpet I am looking at is made in LA?
V/R,
Roger
(A trombone player trying to navigate the trumpet/cornet world) |
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oxleyk
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 4180
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:42 am Post subject: Re: Cornet Recommendations |
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| Villanovaswo wrote: | | What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen? |
Getzen is located in Elkhorn, WI. There is no Elkhart Getzen and never was.
| Villanovaswo wrote: | | local music store suggested pocket trumpet because of my son's age |
That's the sad state of today's music stores. Even 100+ years ago pocket trumpets and cornets were little more than novelties. |
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dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Cornet Recommendations |
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| Villanovaswo wrote: | | dr_trumpet wrote: | | Villanovaswo wrote: | Looking for used cornet recommendations for my son who is just starting out after two years of piano. So far I have recommendations for Getzen, Yamaha, and Bach. A few questions:
-What’s a good price for a used student Bach trumpet?
-What’s a good price for a used Getzen 300 or 400?
-What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen?
V/R,
Roger |
Hi Roger,
It should say Los Angeles on the bell in the engraving. Many advertise them as Los Angeles models as well as they are slightly more desirable. I myself haven't ever found an Ambassador cornet that did not work well.
Hopethat helps!
AL
Roger,
Cornet or trumpet? Your title of post says cornet, your note says trumpet. If I were buying a beginner a cornet, I would find a good used Olds Ambassador on eBay and buy it. I would not go over $125 shipped, and I would see if I could find a Los Angeles version. It should serve you well, should be easy to put into top shape and to keep in good condition.
I would not spend more on another instrument until he shows he is interested, and capable of handling a more fragile instrument with maturity.
Hope this helps,
AL |
Doc,
This helps a lot, thanks! I meant cornet; local music store suggested pocket trumpet because of my sons age (may son is about to turn 8 but big for his age), but the wise people on this forum suggested a cornet. I will check out the Olds on E-bay at the price point you suggested. How do I know if the Olds trumpet I am looking at is made in LA?
V/R,
Roger
(A trombone player trying to navigate the trumpet/cornet world) |
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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kehaulani
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Posts: 9025
Location: Hawai`i - Texas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Just a point about pocket trumpets - I understand why one was recommended, but I have had two and I question that small fingers can really negotiate the unique wrap that pocket trumpets have.
My last pocket trumpet was a Carol and was excellent and if your child can negotiate holding one properly good. But I would try one before buying it sight unseen.
FWIW, I started on a normal sized cornet when I was nine and had no problem holding it.
_________________
"If you don't live it, it won't come out of your horn." Bird
Yamaha 8310Z Bobby Shew trumpet
Benge 3X Trumpet
Benge 3X Cornet
Adams F-1 Flghn |
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boog
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Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: |
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Not to take anything from the excellent reputation of the Olds Ambassadors (I have 3 of those), I would suggest you check out the Conn 15a cornet, '60's era. Built like tanks, dent protection on the slide crooks and bends in the horn. They are what I call "5 Slide" Conns, with a slide on the bell tail, which is handy for cleaning. Also, the tuning slide is more like a trumpet, with a straight shot at the mouthpiece receiver that facilitates keeping the lead pipe clean. Bottom springs, a very easy to maintain horn, which is handy for a young person who is likely to blow food, candy, soda pop, chips, etc. into the instrument. It is a large bore horn, but to me plays much like a smaller cornet.
Holds it's value very well, also. These are going in the $100-$200 range currently, and pristine examples going somewhat higher. The 17a is the copper bell version, and is identical otherwise. Plays about the same. I would suggest the 15a, as these are more common, and leave the Coprion models for restorers.
As a dubious benefit, they sound more like trumpets to me, at least in the context of cornets. My Coprion 17a is a nice jazz solo horn, very mellow tone. They ARE very high quality, as were most of the Conn instruments of that time period, and can be played on the semi-pro level and more. To me, they were actually practical "pocket" trumpets. A good 15a can carry a student up through high school, if properly cared for. Maybe not as "cool" as a shiny trumpet, but hey...
Good luck in your search. Hope this helps!
Dave |
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dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| boog wrote: | Not to take anything from the excellent reputation of the Olds Ambassadors (I have 3 of those), I would suggest you check out the Conn 15a cornet, '60's era. Built like tanks, dent protection on the slide crooks and bends in the horn. They are what I call "5 Slide" Conns, with a slide on the bell tail, which is handy for cleaning. Also, the tuning slide is more like a trumpet, with a straight shot at the mouthpiece receiver that facilitates keeping the lead pipe clean. Bottom springs, a very easy to maintain horn, which is handy for a young person who is likely to blow food, candy, soda pop, chips, etc. into the instrument. It is a large bore horn, but to me plays much like a smaller cornet.
Holds it's value very well, also. These are going in the $100-$200 range currently, and pristine examples going somewhat higher. The 17a is the copper bell version, and is identical otherwise. Plays about the same. I would suggest the 15a, as these are more common, and leave the Coprion models for restorers.
As a dubious benefit, they sound more like trumpets to me, at least in the context of cornets. My Coprion 17a is a nice jazz solo horn, very mellow tone. They ARE very high quality, as were most of the Conn instruments of that time period, and can be played on the semi-pro level and more. To me, they were actually practical "pocket" trumpets. A good 15a can carry a student up through high school, if properly cared for. Maybe not as "cool" as a shiny trumpet, but hey...
Good luck in your search. Hope this helps!
Dave |
Another great suggestion, and one to look for if you want to have a little more choice.
_________________
Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| boog wrote: | Not to take anything from the excellent reputation of the Olds Ambassadors (I have 3 of those), I would suggest you check out the Conn 15a cornet, '60's era. Built like tanks, dent protection on the slide crooks and bends in the horn. They are what I call "5 Slide" Conns, with a slide on the bell tail, which is handy for cleaning. Also, the tuning slide is more like a trumpet, with a straight shot at the mouthpiece receiver that facilitates keeping the lead pipe clean. Bottom springs, a very easy to maintain horn, which is handy for a young person who is likely to blow food, candy, soda pop, chips, etc. into the instrument. It is a large bore horn, but to me plays much like a smaller cornet.
Holds it's value very well, also. These are going in the $100-$200 range currently, and pristine examples going somewhat higher. The 17a is the copper bell version, and is identical otherwise. Plays about the same. I would suggest the 15a, as these are more common, and leave the Coprion models for restorers.
As a dubious benefit, they sound more like trumpets to me, at least in the context of cornets. My Coprion 17a is a nice jazz solo horn, very mellow tone. They ARE very high quality, as were most of the Conn instruments of that time period, and can be played on the semi-pro level and more. To me, they were actually practical "pocket" trumpets. A good 15a can carry a student up through high school, if properly cared for. Maybe not as "cool" as a shiny trumpet, but hey...
Good luck in your search. Hope this helps!
Dave |
Thank you so much for all help! The Conn 15a (and even 17a as I am finding some examples of those) open up the spectrum, beautiful horns in decent condition and price. How about the Conn 16b? Does it matter if the horn is silver or brass for student (I know is bone players tend to like brass to keep the tone rich, but the trumpet/cornet players I remember would search out silver horns)?
V/R,
Roger |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| Villanovaswo wrote: | | boog wrote: | Not to take anything from the excellent reputation of the Olds Ambassadors (I have 3 of those), I would suggest you check out the Conn 15a cornet, '60's era. Built like tanks, dent protection on the slide crooks and bends in the horn. They are what I call "5 Slide" Conns, with a slide on the bell tail, which is handy for cleaning. Also, the tuning slide is more like a trumpet, with a straight shot at the mouthpiece receiver that facilitates keeping the lead pipe clean. Bottom springs, a very easy to maintain horn, which is handy for a young person who is likely to blow food, candy, soda pop, chips, etc. into the instrument. It is a large bore horn, but to me plays much like a smaller cornet.
Holds it's value very well, also. These are going in the $100-$200 range currently, and pristine examples going somewhat higher. The 17a is the copper bell version, and is identical otherwise. Plays about the same. I would suggest the 15a, as these are more common, and leave the Coprion models for restorers.
As a dubious benefit, they sound more like trumpets to me, at least in the context of cornets. My Coprion 17a is a nice jazz solo horn, very mellow tone. They ARE very high quality, as were most of the Conn instruments of that time period, and can be played on the semi-pro level and more. To me, they were actually practical "pocket" trumpets. A good 15a can carry a student up through high school, if properly cared for. Maybe not as "cool" as a shiny trumpet, but hey...
Good luck in your search. Hope this helps!
Dave |
Thank you so much for all help! The Conn 15a (and even 17a as I am finding some examples of those) open up the spectrum, beautiful horns in decent condition and price. How about the Conn 16b? Does it matter if the horn is silver or brass for student (I know is bone players tend to like brass to keep the tone rich, but the trumpet/cornet players I remember would search out silver horns)?
V/R,
Roger |
I meant Conn 16a (silver cornet made in the USA - says CONN USA on the bell). |
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Richard III
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Joined: 22 May 2007
Posts: 2655
Location: Anacortes, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: |
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I would suggest a Conn 22B trumpet to start on. It is a well made student trumpet, small bore, which makes it easy to play for a young person and it keeps him playing something that won't be made fun of by other young players. Everybody plays trumpets now. Why saddle him with something that others aren't playing. The configuration of the 22B has the valves close to the face and it is not a heavy horn.
_________________
Richard
King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece |
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Dennis78
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Feb 2015
Posts: 673
Location: Cincinnati
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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My suggestions
Holton t602, t602p
Or many of the vintage pro model Holtons because they’re all very well made and great horns
Same with the cornets c602 for a very good student cornet or c603 & 605 are great semi professional models
If you’re looking strictly for a new cornet that has a traditional sound and is cost effective I would recommend the Brasspire Unicorn from ACB
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a few different ones |
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boog
Veteran Member
Joined: 04 Jun 2014
Posts: 247
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:21 am Post subject: |
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<<<I meant Conn 16a (silver cornet made in the USA - says CONN USA on the bell).>>>
Not familiar with that cornet, but I would guess it is a "post-Elkhart" horn. "Conn USA" horns were most likely made by another manufacturer after the company sold out in the early 70's.
For history and model lists see "The Conn Loyalist" web page:
https://cderksen.home.xs4all.nl/
As for silver or lacquer, that is choice or availability. Has little to do with how the horn plays. Although, kids seem to like the shiny horns...as for me, I have always been a fan of lacquer or raw brass. I have both finishes as well as silver on several of my trumpets. Some players swear that they can hear the difference between identical instruments in lacquer or silver. I guess my hearing is not that good. Must be from standing in front of Mesa Boogie stacks too much as a kid... |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Cornet Recommendations |
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| dr_trumpet wrote: | | Villanovaswo wrote: | Looking for used cornet recommendations for my son who is just starting out after two years of piano. So far I have recommendations for Getzen, Yamaha, and Bach. A few questions:
-What’s a good price for a used student Bach trumpet?
-What’s a good price for a used Getzen 300 or 400?
-What’s the difference (if there is a difference) between a Getzen and an Elkhart Getzen?
V/R,
Roger |
Roger,
Cornet or trumpet? Your title of post says cornet, your note says trumpet. If I were buying a beginner a cornet, I would find a good used Olds Ambassador on eBay and buy it. I would not go over $125 shipped, and I would see if I could find a Los Angeles version. It should serve you well, should be easy to put into top shape and to keep in good condition.
I would not spend more on another instrument until he shows he is interested, and capable of handling a more fragile instrument with maturity.
Hope this helps,
AL |
Doc,
What’s the difference between the difference between LA and Fullerton Olds Ambassador horns?
V/R,
Roger |
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ButchA
Veteran Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2008
Posts: 139
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I agree about the Olds Ambassador version of cornets. I bought one on eBay a while ago and absolutely love it! It's from 1975 and says Olds Ambassador, Fullerton, CA right on top near the bell.
I have heard about LA versions and Fullerton versions, but I am not sure of the differences, other than the years they were made.
Honest... My '75 Olds Ambassador was $69.95 on eBay!! Two issues though: One (major) - no MP at all! Two - one of the bottom braces was loose and needed to be resoldered. That's it.
938278 puts it right at 1975 in Fullerton, CA.
It's a heck of a cornet for very little money and built like a tank! I picked up a cheap Conn 3 (no letter) MP also on eBay and it sounds very nice and sweet!
_________________
1967 Holton Collegiate Trumpet --> my grade school band trumpet. I just can't part with it!
1975 Olds Ambassador Cornet --> my new/used eBay special. Sounds great!
2018 Regiment WI-800 Bugle --> my inexpensive Chinese made bugle from Amazon. |
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 6187
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The venerable YCR-233, YCR-2330 (shepherd's crook) as well as YCR-231 and YCR-2310 (American style) are fine, too. |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:47 am Post subject: |
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I am about to purchase an Olds Ambassdor LA horn for my son and it cost es with a mouthpiece.
Will the mouthpiece the horn comes with be alright for my son as someone who is just starting out?
After doing some research, my only concern is if I need to change mouthpieces since I am very limited due to the shank limitations.
V/R,
Roger |
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Dale Proctor
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Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 9364
Location: Heart of Dixie
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I'd buy a later Fullerton cornet to avoid the non-standard mouthpiece shank issue. There's no significant playability difference between the L.A. and Fullerton models, especially for a beginner. The L.A. models typically came with an Olds 3 mouthpiece, which, in my opinion, is too small/shallow.
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"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham |
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Villanovaswo
Regular Member
Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dale Proctor wrote: | | I'd buy a later Fullerton cornet to avoid the non-standard mouthpiece shank issue. There's no significant playability difference between the L.A. and Fullerton models, especially for a beginner. The L.A. models typically came with an Olds 3 mouthpiece, which, in my opinion, is too small/shallow. |
If I were to get a Fullerton Ambasaador, which date range should I get that has the chance of quality and will accept modern or standard mouthpieces?
V/R,
Roger |
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