Multiple mouthpiece users, which do you call your "main

[Lionel]

Let's say you have two mouthpieces which you regularly play.

One is larger than the other. The bigger one you use in orchestra, most concert band and classical ensembles etc.

The other is shallow and/or smaller and you use it on commercial, jazz lead playing. That and wherever the playing, particularly in the upper register becomes too strenuous to do good work. Question for you,

Which one fo you consider your main piece? A "main mouthpiece" roughly definded as the one which you generally practice on, play most of your music on. That and the one which if you are attempting to improve your technique on, is the one which you always turn to first. Take your time, be descriptive. That and go into detail about what you think are the reasons for your choices.

My story:

A contrarian by nature, I'm someone who has tried and tried to follow conventional thinking but generally found it coming up short. I began in earnest working on my high range 45 years ago. Read almost everything available. Try as I might I couldnt make larger pieces last the whole gig.

So when I was 20 I switched to the famous Al Cass 3x series. Didnt change to it because I preferred the sound. Switched because I needed to keep my job!

Five nights/week, 45 weeks/year. Near constant rehearsal. Was expected both to contribute endlessly to both rehearsal and gig. Winter travel caused chop weaknesses too. Like kanker sores and such. Although the heavy playing decreased the potential of getting chapped lips.

People in the band depended upon me. I wanted them to know that I was always ready. So the leader could call "Feel So Good" or "Star Wars" Theme anytime. Even during the fourth and last set.

Endurance became more important at keeping my job than did having a full orchestral tone.

Unlike most trumpet players who double I keep my "screamer" mouthpiece as my main piece. Its the one I always warm up on. That and the one I perform all my practicing on. The reasons why I keep the scream as my main are several,

My shallow/screamer has been significantly bored out. Both throat and back-bore. This allows it to play plenty big and full enough in the middle register.

Only when I sit down to a long rehearsal in a concert band or church gig do I switch to a more conventional piece. Its about the size of a 3C but with a rounded rim and soft bite.

I consider switching pieces "on the fly" a lot like doubling on trombone and trumpet. Its always easier to switch to the bigger mouthpiece than the smaller one. Because as we blow larger pieces it allows the chops more room to swell. Anyone who doubles on low brass is very aware of this. Switching back and forth is a very practice dependent ability.

Lastly, by making the shallow my main piece it makes this transition back to the smaller piece easier. Because it feels more like "home".

Consequently playing classical music on my larger piece makes that process much easier. While Ive heard people comment that "shallow mouthpieces do not allow much embouchure developent. Because they're so easy to play..."???

I have never found this to be true. During that minority period of time while I'm on a larger piece? It just feels easy as pie to play classical mouthpieces. I believe that this is so because by practicing/playing more onthe shallow piece the chops "get a better education".

Shallow mouthpieces require me to "play smarter".

To "work smart, not hard.."
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[Seymor B Fudd]

[zaferis]

Interesting, but I think I am at odds with this.

I've setlled into my setup for many reasons: Tone being first, then consistency (day to day, week to week) accuracy, endurance, comfort, etc.
Then one of the reasons I'm enjoying my bag of Curry 3 mouthpieces is that they are "hot swap-able". I really don't think I can tell them appart by feel on my face. Yes, they probably have different resistences but that is also greatly impacted by the instrument they are attached to.
I also believe pretty strongly that the mouthpiece has to fit/match the trumpet. I love my Curry 3C on my Bach ML 37 Anniv. Model but pretty much on nothing else - 3C with a 25 throat for C, 3DE for picc.. etc.. Consistent throughout is the rim.

So yes I always start on my 3C, but partly because it's attached to my ML Bb. I start there for Tone, Proper production - Chops are fuctioning properly. If I do it right on the Bb then it translates to the others... I find if I start on my C or picc. or my Commercial with a Curry 3*, I have more struggles and most importantly I think over time I'd lose the core of tone, articulation and approach that I like.
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[Lionel]

Perhaps it needs to be added that in addition to keeping my shallower piece as my main I still exercise my chops with lots of isometrics. Then again maybe it isnt relevent.

Like most people I used to believe that practicing on the larger piece requires more effort and thus conditions the embouchure more effectively. And perhaps it does require more innate strength to blow a larger piece.

However the larger piece is inclined to make the chops swell a bit more. As the chops have a larger volume to fill within the deeper cup. That and the demands of playing a larger piece are often greater. Example: a high C is a little harder to blow/sustain on a 3C than a shallow lead mouthpiece. So we can expect both the larger cup depth/volume to induce lip swelling. That and the demands placed upon the trumpet player using a larger mouthpiece to create swelling too.

At some point or another the swelling caused by playing a larger mouthpiece is going to create unusual sensations when one starts playing the shallower piece. Most complaints about shallower pieces involve statements like,

"I always bottom out".

And in fact the same can be true for those who double on low brass instruments. No matter how large your trumpet mouthpiece is it still feels too small after first playing the trombone or euphonium.

To tell you the truth it was only this past Wed night at a rehearsal when I discovered that by making the shallow piece my "main" that it was making my classical work better on the larger piece. Granted I dont have tons of demands put on my classical trumpet performance. Just a typical solo 1st cornet part in an average adult concert band. A commitment which I try and keep just to stay in shape. That and connected to the community. The chair is demanding but it isnt like requires tricky intervals like the Hummel or Haydn. And yet after a whole summer of practicing and performing exclusively on my shallowest piece?

Was able to fly through the whole rehearsal using the larger mouthpiece. The one I hadnt blown one note on since last Spring! Think I switched to a shallower puece (but not my scream piece) towards the end of the rehearsal. Just to make one of the marches easier to facillitate. To my surprise the smaller puece did notfeel so cramped.

Its a path that works well for me. However I wouldnt try and play a lead trumpet gig on my larger classical mouthpiece. As this would require excessive conditioning. And by adding on more practice hours I always run the risk of developing over-trained chops.

Given the choice between being out of shape or having over-trained chops?

I'd rather play on an out of shape lip... At least when I'm out of shape I'm not perpetually playing on swollen lips. My experience allows me to work around any deficiencies associated with merely being oyt of shape.
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[trumpet56]

I use a variety of mouthpieces on my instruments. My go too warm up trumpet mouthpiece is a Stork 1 with a 3 rim. I use this mouthpiece on both Bb and C trumpets . On the cornet I use a Toshi copy of a Wick 2 with a titanium breslmair 7c rim. On flugel I use a Wick 2. On the rotaries I use a variety of breslmair cup and backbore combinations with either 1 C or G rim depending on the make and key of the rotary. For me its about finding the right balance of rim, cup. throat, backbore and instrument to give me the sound I am after. I am looking for the right balance of core and overtones in the sound.

[Lionel]

Whoops! Duplicate post. Meanwhile, as I delete?

I think that the bigger adversary in multiple mouthpiece usage is coping with swelling of the chops. Not switching to the more demanding larger piece but returning to the smaller one.

As we blow longer sessions on the large piece the upper lip seems to "inflate" with our own blood. Then stays that way. Then while returning to the smaller mouthpiece the upper lip has trouble finding the same groove as before. Similar to trying to fit into a size smaller boot after a long hiking trek.

Also reminds me of coming back to any trumpet mouthpiece after a couple sets of demanding trombone or euphonium work.
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[trumpet56]

[quote="Lionel"]

[bach_again]

Lionel, I am glad someone else has had the same experience as me!

Best,
Mike
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[trickg]

This is an interesting thread.

Lionel, like you, I started using a smaller mouthpiece as a means to not necessarily keep my job in the Latin band I was playing in at the time, but definitely to help me get through a gig - to give me better access to my upper register, and to help endurance.

At the time, I was still in the military band program, so back then I was doing almost all of my playing on a "classical" mouthpiece, (Marcinikiewicz #2) and I'd switch to the Schilke 14A4a for the Latin Band gigs and rehearsals - I didn't practice on it.

Moving forward about 10 years, I got to a point where most of my playing was centered around the wedding dance band I was in, so I did almost all of my practicing and playing on the shallow piece - I'm currently on a Warburton setup, but I used a Schilke 14A4a and then later a Schilke 14A4 for nearly 20 years as my shallow "lead" mouthpiece.

These days, my playing is split pretty evenly between playing with the wedding dance band and doing other classical playing, so I tend to practice on the mouthpiece I'm going to be using next. As an example, I had a brass quintet gig this weekend, so my practice leading up to that gig was all done on a Curry 3C. This next weekend I have a wedding reception on Saturday, so my practice this week will all be on the Warburton 4SVW/KT.

Anymore I'm at a point where I can pretty much switch at will between the two at any time, which is probably because neither mouthpiece is extreme in any way - the Warburton is a bit shallower, but it's not terribly shallow, and it's not narrow at all. Likewise, the Curry 3C. is neither too wide nor too deep.

That's how I do it these days anyway, but if I had to pick one as my "main" it would probably be the Warburton - for me, it has always been easier to warm up or practice on smaller equipment and then go bigger, which matches the advice of a good friend of mine who suggested to me years ago to always warm up on your smallest equipment, and then go bigger.
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[Seymor B Fudd]

[brassmusician]

I don't agree with your contention that larger pieces cause lip swelling unless more pressure is being used to handle the bigger cup. I believe that on larger pieces our embouchure tends to spread and we end up putting more lip in the cup. That is what makes going to shallower pieces hard and players bottom out. Playing a shallow piece successfully requires less lip intrusion, in fact I find playing high and loud on my lead piece reduces my lip intrusion and when I go to my legit piece I get a better sound.

[trpno]

I practice primarily on the lead piece. I find that it requires (and therefore, builds) more precision. But also because that's what I use the most when performing. I typically prefer my medium piece for solos, and I move between pieces in 2 sec on the same horn. My third piece is a flugeltrumpet (deep vee and short shank) for really soft sound without a flugelhorn. The more you practice on the lead piece, the better tone you get on it (surprise...). I try to reduce the duration on the deep pieces, as it makes going shallow more difficult.

[John Mohan]

The biggest, deepest mouthpiece I (rarely) use is a Bach 1X with a #22 Throat and the #24 Symphonic Backbore. The smallest, shallowest mouthpiece I (very, very rarely) use is a Bob Reeves 43S. Since late 2003 I've played 90% of my work obligations on either a stock Bob Reeves 43C or the copy of Arturo Sandoval's favorite Mount Vernon 3C that James R. New made for me (the 43C is the one I use the most between the two).

For my daily practice for several years I've been vacillating back and forth between the 43C and the MV3C copy. I like the bigger, brighter, easier high notes and almost magically nice warm tone on the middle register notes that I get with the 43C (it still amazes me how Bob managed to design a mouthpiece that is nice and warm sounding in the lower and middle registers, yet sounds so big and bright in the upper register). But I like the bigger low notes and easier articulations in the low to middle registers I get with the MV3C copy. I know I should choose one and stick with it. Logic tells me I should choose the MV3C as I've been playing on the 43C for nearly 14 years, and if those articulations in the lower to middle register were ever going to get easier on it for me, they would have already; where as it's possible, and even probable that if I just stuck with the MV3C all the time I could work up the physical strength necessary to make it really soar in the upper register (I can't play any higher on the 43C, but the notes above High C are at least 25% louder on the 43C than on the MV3C).

Cheers,

John Mohan
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