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Haydn in auditions: which horn?



 
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alber_trp
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Joined: 21 Sep 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject: Haydn in auditions: which horn? Reply with quote

Hi everyone!

TL; DR: Is it acceptable to play the Haydn on a B flat horn for the screened first round in an audition?

Long version:

I am currently preparing for two auditions, one is for an "as needed" position in an US Orchestra, the other for a principal position in Europe. Both auditions require the Haydn in the preliminary round, with the European audition specifying it has to be played on a B flat trumpet. Since I am honestly more familiar with the piece on a B flat, having taken already other similar auditions, and would avoid preparing the same piece on two different horns at the same time, do you guys think showing in an audition in the US playing the Haydn on a bigger horn is acceptable?

Thank you!
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brass crusader
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. Play it on what you sound best on and are most confident on. I always played it on Eb, and may have used the Eb for some excerpts, but if you play it best on Bb, go with that.
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Jerry
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of my former teachers, a member of a US symphony orchestra, once told me that he prefers to play the Haydn on a rotary Bb.
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andybharms
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do think all that has been said is true.... BUT...

In my opinion people can do both. Not as a rule, but as a waypoint on the road to great musicianship. I can point to a lot of evidence of why I believe this.
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Nonsense Eliminator
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think a committee is likely to care what trumpet you use. In general, most of them won't be trumpet players, so the likelihood is that most of the committee won't have any idea.

They will, however, care how you sound. Consider that most people will be playing E flat trumpets. For most people, playing it on E flat makes it less physically demanding, lighter, cleaner, and more accurate. You probably won't get any brownie points for using B flat, but if it sounds harder or heavier or messier, that is going to count against you. Of course, those may not be issues for you or be outweighed by other benefits (for you) of using the B flat.

Most committees ask for a concerto so they can hear you play music, so... do that.
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Richard Sandals
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Danbassin
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jerry wrote:
One of my former teachers, a member of a US symphony orchestra, once told me that he prefers to play the Haydn on a rotary Bb.


The Haydn on a rotary Bb is specified on most German/German language-speaking countries' audition lists.

The difference between the piece on Eb (piston), piston Bb, or rotary Bb is rather extreme, but each offer the performer a different lens for this idiosyncratic masterwork. Thankfully, I've never seen a requirement to play it on keyed trumpet, though I know a few players who are soprano cornet enthusiasts and have given convincing performances of the piece on that instrument - definitely 'sweeter' sounding than the historically-correct keyed trumpet, but by no means more unusual, or futher away from its sound than an Eb piston trumpet.

Sound your best, let the confidence from your equipment choice influence your performances, and communicate your very best music - good luck!

-DB
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MrClean
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nonsense Eliminator wrote:
I don't think a committee is likely to care what trumpet you use. In general, most of them won't be trumpet players, so the likelihood is that most of the committee won't have any idea.

They will, however, care how you sound. Consider that most people will be playing E flat trumpets. For most people, playing it on E flat makes it less physically demanding, lighter, cleaner, and more accurate. You probably won't get any brownie points for using B flat, but if it sounds harder or heavier or messier, that is going to count against you. Of course, those may not be issues for you or be outweighed by other benefits (for you) of using the B flat.

Most committees ask for a concerto so they can hear you play music, so... do that.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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alber_trp
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for the replies! This is great.

Right now I am considering pros and cons of the situation. Although I am more inclined to just prepare the piece on the same horn because of the practical side of it, there is also other things involved. The audition in Europe will be accompanied, while the US one won't. That means I have to prepare an A=440 and an A=442 Haydn, which could mess me up if trying to do both at the same time on the same horn.

Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before?
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Andy Del
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alber_trp wrote:

Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before?

Not exactly, but I spend some time living with a piano that was a 1/4 tone flat. I was studying baroque performance and used the piano as a pitch reference, at a 1/4 tone... I had to use my ear, but it wasn't too hard.

Playing a lot of modern works with microtones probably helped, too.

Also, my orchestra, like so many are absolutely convinced they must play at A=440. By getting my oboist to tune them at A = 442 we realised far better ensemble pitch and intonation. AND, they all liked it more.

One day, I'll tell them!

The thing to do is use your ears and go with what you hear.

cheers

Andy
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Nonsense Eliminator
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I'm missing something, but for me the difference between 440 and 442 is where I put my tuning slide. Or else which section of the orchestra I'm playing with at that moment...
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Irving
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I walked in to a lesson with Mr. Vacchiano and the first thing he said was, "I just made a discovery. The Haydn on the D flat trumpet!" It actually makes sense. It puts you into the key of D on the 1st and 3rd movements, and in G on the second. How do you get a D flat trumpet? Easy, you take your D trumpet and pull out the slides. If you have a Schilke tuning bell Eb/D, then just pull out the bell and adjust the slides.

After that lesson, it was never mentioned again.

Just remember, you heard it first on the TH.
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trumpetman7984
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've played it on both for auditions and it just depends on what you're more comfortable with. I've played it on Eb trumpet in classical auditions and I once had a jazz audition where out of the blue they told me to play the Haydn, so I had to play it on Bb trumpet on the spot.
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Trumpetingbynurture
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

alber_trp wrote:
Thank you all for the replies! This is great.

Right now I am considering pros and cons of the situation. Although I am more inclined to just prepare the piece on the same horn because of the practical side of it, there is also other things involved. The audition in Europe will be accompanied, while the US one won't. That means I have to prepare an A=440 and an A=442 Haydn, which could mess me up if trying to do both at the same time on the same horn.

Anybody has ever incurred in that situation before?


For a reference. A=442 is only ~8cents sharper than A=440. The difference we're talking about is 1/12th of a semitone / half-step.

Pretty sure you're way over thinking it.

Also, I don't see how preparing it on two separate horns would fix this.
Also, if you do prepare it on two trumpets, realise that you are essentially cutting your practice time of the piece on either horn in half. If you can do it on one trumpet, that makes the most sense to me in terms of being the most polished
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