Wild Thing Long Cornet

[jhatpro]

I'll get it together as soon as Amazon delivers the gear. I'll do a little Dixie on both horns for contrast, and a few bars of something different to show the WT's sweet side.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[jhatpro]

Well, I mastered the basics of operating the Zoom Q8 video camera and have a short demo of the Flip Oakes Wild Thing American Long Cornet ready to roll out - but I don't know how to post it on TH.

Can someone fill me in?

Thanks!!!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[dstdenis]

You can upload it to YouTube if you want it to be widely discoverable or upload it to DropBox and select the share feature if you just want a link you can share selectively.
_________________
Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi

[shofarguy]

[jhatpro]

Thanks, guys!

Here's my comparison of a 1955 Conn 80A Victor and my new Flip Oakes Wild Thing American long cornet.

https://youtu.be/9SNB9-IkVUw
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[shofarguy]

[Richard III]

Thanks for giving us something to chew on. What mouthpiece were you using?
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[jhatpro]

To keep the comparison as fair as possible I used a Curry 1.5 DC for both horns.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[jhatpro]

As you know a horn usually sounds different to the player than it does to the audience. I'm curious how you would describe the sounds of the two horns I played in the demo and which you prefer and why.

Thanks!
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[Richard III]

What? People haven't listened? The 80A sounds like the quintessential trad. jazz cornet. There is a reason people went to trumpet to play the style. There is a brassiness that is needed to get the right sound. Be it a combination of mouthpiece and horn, something is needed. Listen to Muggsy Spanier, Bobby Hackett, Wild Bill or Bill Coleman. The revival in the 40's of the music was not the same sound as the teens and 20's. It's not just volume.

This is the second time I've heard the WT long cornet. Both times I felt it lacked that sound. There is a dullness to the sound that for me, doesn't work with that type of music. I have a large bore modern cornet and to get the sound I really have to push. It's not fun and at softer volumes it just disappears. Why the 80A maintains the sparking sound at different volumes, I don't know.

I started with recording my sound on many horns. Then ran them all through with a tuner. From those conclusions I then recorded each playing with the band. The last told me that the tuner isn't everything and playing with others reveals much. From behind the horn playing with others was totally different than what I heard on the recording. There is much more work to do to get just the right sound.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[shofarguy]

Richard III,

I hear what you hear between these horns. Some people will like the bigger, broader sound of the Wild Thing. Others, like yourself, want to match a more compact sound concept. Over the past 8 years that I have played a Wild Thing trumpet, I have concluded a few things.

First, is that to match the more traditional sound concepts, I need to use a mouthpiece that is typically one size shallower. That brings more brilliance and focus to the timbre.

Secondly, I can achieve on a WT what can be done on a more traditional design, but I cannot attain on a traditional instrument some of the things that are part of the Wild Thing's capabilities. For instance the low register below the staff. I must work hard to fill out that part of my range by opening the jaw, the aperture of my embouchure and maybe even opt for a slightly deeper mouthpiece, which then compromises my upper range. On the WT, it doesn't matter how shallow a mouthpiece I use (I have a 5-L that is between a Bach E and D in depth), the low register is always there in full rich glory.

The key is to explore Flip's horns over a long enough period of time to know their capabilities and how to access them. When players approach them with conventional expectations and hold to the habits and perspectives they formed on conventional instruments, they run the risk of passing by the opportunity to grow well beyond what was possible before.
_________________
Brian A. Douglas

Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper


There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds.

[1957Tim]

Hi Jim, and thanks for giving us a nice sound clip of these two great cornets. For the record, I am far from an expert.

I like the sound of both cornets, but my ear is tuned to the bigger more mellow sound that your Wild Thing gives, so that is where I cast my lot.

Being able to produce a bigger sound with less work seems like a desirable goal. I’m curious how you would compare the play-ability of these two cornets. Are you working harder to produce the bigger more mellow sound on your Wild Thing?

We are blessed in these modern times to have such a variety of options available to us. I’m sure if you need a brighter sound you’ll use a mouthpiece that will generate that, or simply get out your trumpet, right?

-1957Tim

[Flip Oakes]

On my website I have some sound samples of myself playing the playback quality is not as good as I would like. My new webmaster put them up at a lesser quality then my previous webmaster had. Not real happy... But here they are. You have to click onto each one.

Wild Thing Bb Trumpet recorded live at a Jazz Festival....

Wild Thing Bb Flugelhorn from a demo CD of a quartet I had...

Wild Thing Short Model Cornet from a CD I'm on with the South Market St. Jazz Band years ago. ( In Palm Springs years ago after playing Pete Belly's Blues at a Dixieland Festival Dick Cathcart came up to me and gave me a huge compliment on my playing and the 'SOUND' ) Dick Cathcart was the guy who originally recorded that tune for the movie and album Pete Kelly's Blues

http://flipoakes.com/trumpets-cornets-flugelhorns/ just click onto the arrow.

All three have their own voice... The only thing I have of me playing the Wild Thing American Cornet is on an old video tape, and I can't find it...

All The Best,

Flip Oakes
_________________
Flip Oakes “Wild Thing Trumpets�
2559 Mottino Dr.
Oceanside, Ca. 92056-3421
760-643-1501


Delivering the distinctive Wild Thing Sound since 1994

[Richard III]

[jhatpro]

I'm finding my new WT long cornet exceptionally easy to play despite the .470 bore. Notes seem to just pop out! I'm no range monkey but I have no trouble playing up to high C and above that I'm not interested - on cornet, at least.

I'm also discovering, as Brian notes, that mouthpiece choice plays an important role in the quality of sound you can generate with this horn.

I've been experimenting with a Flip Oakes old stye 3, Curry VC 1.5, Curry DC 1,5, Curry BBC 1.5, Bach 3C, Bach 6, Bach 6B, and an Austin Custom Brass T1 with a cup that matches the ACB cup on my trumpet mouthpieces.

Using the shallower pieces does produce a sound that's closer to the bright Conn 80A. I very much like that classic 80A sound but I still prefer the bigger, broader WT sound.

As my wife says, just because you like one wine doesn't mean you can't like another, too.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[Richard III]

The next request will be taking the few best of those combinations and recording them for us to peruse.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[Richard III]

Of course I will add that it is my personal belief that after the player, the mouthpiece is more important than the final instrument. I won't even try and do math here but once I found the mouthpiece, I've not changed it. I go back and try others to see if a combination would work to achieve the same sound but it never does and I miss the me-mouthpiece combination that works the best.
_________________
Richard

King 1130 Flugabone
King 12C mouthpiece

[jhatpro]

Hmmm, I was just thinking I'd be wise to pick one piece, put the rest in the Marketplace and focus on becoming a better player.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle

[Oncewasaplayer]

I enjoyed hearing the recordings. I'd spent the afternoon playing an 80-A and when I heard that horn, I thought, yep. sounds good for trad jazz.

The FO cornet sounded louder and a bit darker. Also, a good sound. I agree that the FO horn is big and juicy for ballad playing. Who needs a flugelhorn when you have this horn.

I'd suggest you need to try the FO horn on a gig or playing session in order to test the effort required to make it match the setting. A month of paying the FO horn will help you settle in and match your goals to the horn.

My last thought is that the Curry 1.5 DC is a fine mouthpiece but in my own playing with the FO horn is that it was too deep and too big to match the horn's blow. I've been playing a simple Warburton medium mpc with a KTM backbore and that made the sound considerably brighter (and tighter--my preference).

Sound concepts in trad jazz and hot swing music are quite different on old recordings versus recordings from the 40s and 50s. Today, the bright trumpet sound is a goal for many and for others a darker, less bright sound will work.
_________________
Getzen 800DLX cornet
Selmer Sigma trumpet

[jhatpro]

Good advice, thanks! I have some Dixie gigs coming up and I'm eager to put the FO horn to the performance test.
_________________
Jim Hatfield

"The notes are there - find them.� Mingus

2021 Martinus Geelan Custom
2005 Bach 180-72R
1965 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
1946 Conn Victor
1998 Scodwell flugel
1986 Bach 181 cornet
1954 Conn 80A cornet
2002 Getzen bugle