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If you could start over again


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Lionel
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

matthes93401 wrote:
As a youngster, start out with a more positive mindset, less focus on mistake avoidance, more big picture thinking. Attend live performances in various genres, theatre, other arts.


This is a well thought out post. I too used to be too mistake conscious. In fact it wasn't until I got out on the road playing professionally before I started thinking positively. Concentrating more on The Blow. That and emphasizing the notes I got correct as opposed to those I played imperfectly.

Being forced to play loudly really reinforced my positive outlook. In fact it wasn't until I started playing more loudly that my mistakes decreased to a point of relative insignificance. Today I haven't worried about missing a note in years. I may occasionally flub one but its almost always minor and I can live with it.

Conversely in my younger days I was held hostage by my fears of screwing up.
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SALUKIGUY
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I would have spoken up against my Jazz Band director in High School when I was treated unfairly.

I was yelled at and berated and kicked out of Jazz Band in the middle of rehearsal. We were shedding a difficult 16 note passage and I had worked on it at home. I probably was off that night but I don't think I was that bad, certainly the saxes were not that great either. It might not even have been me that was screwing up. I guess he wanted to make an example of someone. Didn't realize what a dick this man was until that moment. It was my senior year no less. A few mornings later he called the house and my mom answered. He wanted me to get to rehearsal for Jazz Band #2. I rolled over and went to bed at that point because I was not going to play for him after the other experience. I didn't have any problems in band to that point so I am still wondering what the mans problem was.
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SALUKIGUY wrote:
I wish I would have spoken up against my Jazz Band director in High School when I was treated unfairly.

I was yelled at and berated and kicked out of Jazz Band in the middle of rehearsal. We were shedding a difficult 16 note passage and I had worked on it at home. I probably was off that night but I don't think I was that bad, certainly the saxes were not that great either. It might not even have been me that was screwing up. I guess he wanted to make an example of someone. Didn't realize what a dick this man was until that moment. It was my senior year no less. A few mornings later he called the house and my mom answered. He wanted me to get to rehearsal for Jazz Band #2. I rolled over and went to bed at that point because I was not going to play for him after the other experience. I didn't have any problems in band to that point so I am still wondering what the mans problem was.


That stinks, Salukiguy. Did you hang up the horn after that? My BD wasn't abusive, he just didn't do much to engage us in doing anything other than reading notes and playing the accidentals correctly. So I got bored and quit when an either/or decision had to be made about band or sports. And I didn't miss it a bit. When I decided to play something again after almost 40 years, I seriously considered guitar but stuck with horn because I would not be starting from scratch. I honestly don't know whether I should have challenged the BD when he got into one of his "rock stinks, it's not worth your time" speeches. Doesn't matter at this point.
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SMrtn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

markp wrote:
SMrtn wrote:
All you piano player, guitar player wannabes - what the hell are you doing on a trumpet forum?

You either like the entire trumpet shtick, or you don't. I don't get it.


I think you are mis-understanding. Playing piano can only strengthen your musicianship and make you a better jazz player. Just look at Arturo Sandoval and Carl Saunders. Both play great piano.

I also wish I had stuck with piano when I was younger.


Yep, it's possible. All in the way it's interpreted. I guess if that's how they meant it then that's cool. Not sure they did, but IF.

Piano's a definite advantage for a musician I agree.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Croquethed wrote:
SALUKIGUY wrote:
I wish I would have spoken up against my Jazz Band director in High School when I was treated unfairly.

I was yelled at and berated and kicked out of Jazz Band in the middle of rehearsal. We were shedding a difficult 16 note passage and I had worked on it at home. I probably was off that night but I don't think I was that bad, certainly the saxes were not that great either. It might not even have been me that was screwing up. I guess he wanted to make an example of someone. Didn't realize what a dick this man was until that moment. It was my senior year no less. A few mornings later he called the house and my mom answered. He wanted me to get to rehearsal for Jazz Band #2. I rolled over and went to bed at that point because I was not going to play for him after the other experience. I didn't have any problems in band to that point so I am still wondering what the mans problem was.


That stinks, Salukiguy. Did you hang up the horn after that? My BD wasn't abusive, he just didn't do much to engage us in doing anything other than reading notes and playing the accidentals correctly. So I got bored and quit when an either/or decision had to be made about band or sports. And I didn't miss it a bit. When I decided to play something again after almost 40 years, I seriously considered guitar but stuck with horn because I would not be starting from scratch. I honestly don't know whether I should have challenged the BD when he got into one of his "rock stinks, it's not worth your time" speeches. Doesn't matter at this point.


Similar experience - started playing with a wonderful band director, ex Woody Herman sax player who loved big band. Would have done anything for this guy, we never lost a competition of any kind in the 4 years he was there and the stage band made 3 albums. At least 6 of us every year would make all state band and quite a few went to college on music scholarships. He was tireless and personable and had our interests above his own. He decided he had to take care of his family and left for a very successful career as a sales executive for an instrument company GOOD FOR HIM!!!!! But the guy he left behind to take over the band was IMO an insufferable P****. We had a personality clash in the middle of concert band when I missed a note on a sightread solo, and told me if I couldn’t play it to let someone else. This is the start of 11th grade, and I played 1st chair all state in my sophomore year, and I didn’t like him to start with, so I told him to let someone play them all and walked out. I was more than a bit hardheaded but was also an all state athlete and just buried myself in that. The head of music at Marshall had told me I could have a scholarship and he played trumpet so I took lessons from him for about 6 months before just having life take over and quitting altogether. Bad set of circumstances got me from music, and I was pretty good in a small pond.
Years go by and my music tastes shift to rock and Blues. Want to play music, and would like to play guitar, but wont put all the get started sweat in. Still want to play music so trumpet is it, a beautiful but limited instrument and much harder to play than guitar. I want to play electric blues and might be able to add something, find me an electric band that wants a trumpet??
Rod
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Croquethed
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see why that wouldn't work. Jim Price and Bobby Keys played on some of the most influential records in rock's history.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Croquethed wrote:
I don't see why that wouldn't work. Jim Price and Bobby Keys played on some of the most influential records in rock's history.


I think it would work quite well. Getting a working band to take the time to work a new person in on an instrument they aren’t used to seems to be kinda hard. I live in WV and the blues rock scene is on par with the population, kind of small in comparison to bigger pools. And I’m relatively new to the playing scene and dont know who where etc.. I’m hoping to find some guys who just want to jam for awhile until we can work out an act/show, then see what we do in public. Everyone in my area seems to either be into country or metal, and its kind of rare to see jazz blues venues here. I am really just getting comfortable with blues progressions and patterns and the bop is beyond me at this point. I also dont want to be used as part of a horn section but as a soloing member of the band. This is also a bit foreign to most mainstream Blues rockers, seems its all about guitar. Also I’m 65 and even tho I now look the part of shaggy long hair blues player (ain’t retirement wonderful) the25-40 year age gap is hard for people to see past. Gonna have to plug into geriatric blues players and learn how to work a sound board. Ive even thought of backing (financially) a small band just so I could play and stick with it long enough to see if we could do something. I am hearing so many good young players that have sound and technique which I probably wont be able to obtain, but many lack a true feeling for the music and just play along. Hopefully there will be a place for me someday. In the meantime I will continue to prepare.
Rod
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DaveH
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my case, the past would be a long time ago, so if I had everything to do over again, I would take lessons a lot longer - maybe never quit taking lessons, if such were possible.

I think I also spent too long on big mouthpieces like a 1 1/4C...I think I would have gone to a smaller mouthpiece earlier on, but I didn't know any better, and the main teacher I had years ago never took me in that direction. He was into the big mouthpiece concept of trumpet playing, being an orchestral trumpet player himself, as well as into the idea that bigger is better.

I would also be like those above who have spoken about other instruments, such as guitar and piano. Especially piano. I would work on developing an instrument that was played in other ways that relying on the mouth. I have a little piano and guitar ability, but I would probably take piano to to a much higher level.
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Lionel
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaveH wrote:
In my case, the past would be a long time ago, so if I had everything to do over again, I would take lessons a lot longer - maybe never quit taking lessons, if such were possible.

I think I also spent too long on big mouthpieces like a 1 1/4C...I think I would have gone to a smaller mouthpiece earlier on, but I didn't know any better, and the main teacher I had years ago never took me in that direction. He was into the big mouthpiece concept of trumpet playing, being an orchestral trumpet player himself, as well as into the idea that bigger is better.

I would also be like those above who have spoken about other instruments, such as guitar and piano. Especially piano. I would work on developing an instrument that was played in other ways that relying on the mouth. I have a little piano and guitar ability, but I would probably take piano to to a much higher level.



This is another good post. Ive liked everything written in this topic.

The part about getting stuck on the 1&1/4C piece was particularly insightful. So many trumpet music majors were under much pressure to switch to the largest pieces. I think its still going on today.
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homecookin
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rod Haney wrote:
Definately play guitar. Even mid level pro guitar players can get in a band and hit it big. Brass players are not really appreciated because the sound is limited when compared to electric instruments. I for one would use everything I could hook up (if I had the talent) to play electric blues thru the trumpet. We will never do chords, but almost every thing else but the 8 octaves could be done if you were good enough. Guys like Jeff Beck and Joe Bonnamassa show the full capabilities of that instrument and no trumpet player will ever equal their speed and agility it simply isn't possible, but they may be as close to mastery as humans can get. The fact that more can be musically done on a guitar is why I would change instruments - after my junior year in hi school seeing a good big band was a major trip as fewer existed. Rock was everywhere and guys who coldnt play as well as a 8th grade music student were getting rich! I saw no economic future in playing brass even as a top player, that cooked it for me for 47 years. If you mean changes as a trumpet player - simply sticking with it. Everything but the money would have taken care of itself.
Glad I never had to make a 'living' that way, but twice as gld I can enjoy it now
Rod


Well, the first thing you should do when you start over is definitely
learn to spell "definitely".
And as for the rest of your post... Spoken like a true amateur.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

homecookin wrote:
[quote="Rod
Glad I never had to make a 'living' that way, but twice as gld I can enjoy it now
Rod


Well, the first thing you should do when you start over is definitely
learn to spell "definitely".
And as for the rest of your post... Spoken like a true amateur.[/quote]

Well at least I’m not an amateur English teacher👨‍🏫!

And I hope your attitude hasn’t become the new “professional” trumpet players attitude. There are many “professions” and being rude is not generally valuable in any of them. I cant imagine what I might have said to offend you unless the way I feel about the original question offends you. If so live with it.
Rod
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eric33
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have moved to Bloomington...
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homecookin
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rod Haney wrote:
homecookin wrote:
[quote="Rod
Glad I never had to make a 'living' that way, but twice as gld I can enjoy it now
Rod


Well, the first thing you should do when you start over is definitely
learn to spell "definitely".
And as for the rest of your post... Spoken like a true amateur.


Well at least I’m not an amateur English teacher👨‍🏫!

And I hope your attitude hasn’t become the new “professional” trumpet players attitude. There are many “professions” and being rude is not generally valuable in any of them. I cant imagine what I might have said to offend you unless the way I feel about the original question offends you. If so live with it.
Rod[/quote]

Quite the contrary, I was not offended by your post at all.
But evidently you were offended by mine.
I personally, don't think there's anything wrong with
being an amateur.
You are the one that attached the negative connotation
to my use of the word "amateur".
By definition, an amateur is someone who is a
true lover of the subject.
I think that's a great thing.
In fact, the only thing critical in my post was my
correcting of your misspelling of the word " definitely".
Which I found mildly amusing.
But that's okay, I can DEFINITELY learn to "live with it",
as you put it.
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Rod Haney
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

homecookin wrote:
Rod Haney wrote:
homecookin wrote:
[quote="Rod
Glad I never had to make a 'living' that way, but twice as gld I can enjoy it now
Rod


Well, the first thing you should do when you start over is definitely
learn to spell "definitely".
And as for the rest of your post... Spoken like a true amateur.


....might have said to offend you unless the way I feel about the original question offends you. If so live with it.
Rod


Quite the contrary, I was not offended by your post at all.
But evidently you were offended by mine.
I personally, don't think there's anything wrong with
being an amateur.
You are the one that attached the negative connotation
to my use of the word "amateur".
By definition, an amateur is someone who is a
true lover of the subject.
I think that's a great thing.
In fact, the only thing critical in my post was my
correcting of your misspelling of the word " definitely".
Which I found mildly amusing.
But that's okay, I can DEFINITELY learn to "live with it",
as you put it.[/quote]

Please accept my apology as - Yes I am a bit offended at times by the implied use of ameture vs professional used at times on the list. I sometimes imagine the “professional’ grade school music teacher who cannot play past Elementary studies compared to the Accountant who plays Haydn once a week to stay in shape. A friggin trumpet player is a trumpet player and there are good and bad on both sides of the Ametuer|Professional line. It’s hard for me to believe that the line between where you make your money implies different levels of skill or musicianship. Being constantly exposed does give you definitive advantage but doesn’t exclusively give the keys to the kingdom. So if I misinterpreted your intent in the post I apologize for a bit of a curt response. I still do not understand how my response branded me as an amateur but since I’m comfortable within my skin I’m OK with that label. Ill never be comfortable not trying to play as well as I can.
Rod
Proud amateur
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epoustoufle
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well just to inject a little humor before this excellent thread derails too badly

There's a really interesting interview with Roger Ingram (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj4p4gxtfGw) where at about the 1h 04m mark he talks about being a "professional". To paraphrase slightly, the main difference between being a professional and a decent amateur is the number of times you've played "hot hot hot conga" this week at wedding gigs!
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outskiing
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject: Lessons and Courage Reply with quote

I would have taken lessons and screwed up enough courage to try out for jazz band.
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BGinNJ
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, too, can relate to the comments about playing another instrument, or quitting. The love/hate relationship with the trumpet is so common!

I played trumpet in school band, but wasn't a "band geek". Guitar was much cooler to me (it was the 70's!). I worked harder at it and got pretty advanced- far beyond the rock & roll bar chords and pentatonic scales my peers were playing. Then I got into jazz, bebop.
One day my brother said something about, "you're playing jazz, without horns?". I decided to start using my trumpet for this new-to-me music I was learning. I met a teacher in a summer workshop I studied with for the next 6 years, and besides Bird & Diz, got really into the music of Lennie Tristano and his followers.

My ability, influences and taste in music tortuously led me to realize I wasn't going to be a working musician on either instrument, and shouldn't go to college for music, either. I kept at it, though just for fun. I didn't foresake the guitar, either, it just became more of a supporting, secondary instrument in my 20's. Then in my 30's I switched, and the trumpet went into the closet.

In retrospect, if I had to do it again I'd be more open to different kinds of playing experiences and music, and other teachers. I think the experience would have helped me be more decisive about one instrument or the other.
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jerryv914
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:54 pm    Post subject: Starting over Reply with quote

If I were starting over and in high school, knowing what I know now I would...

1) practice better, not necessarily more but smarter and more deliberately

2)practice more fundamentals

3) do,way more ear training and solfeggio

4) listen to everything, all the great recordings. Listen a lot.

5} realize the value of piano lessons

6) never, ever, give up. Never.

And all of this is what I’m doing now, as a comeback player.
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Proteus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have chosen <ahem> to be born into a professional musical family; would have gotten a real trumpet teacher in early high school; and would have had my 10,000 hours done by age 20 and headed for an orchestra gig shortly after that. Not for me walking the malls dressed like a reindeer playing Xmas carols to pay my rent!
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have played tuba from the beginning.
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