Does anyone play a Bach 72 for classical rep?

[Trumpetingbynurture]

I'm just wondering if anyone can think of anyone that uses the standard weight Bach 72 for solo and/or orchestral playing? I had a look on OJ's player/equipment page but couldn't see any classical guys that used a 72. Most of the 72s listed were light weight and used by jazz/lead players.

I know the 37 is considered the 'standard' but would there be a reason why the standard 72 wouldn't be suited for classical repertoire?
Most of what I read indicates it's a good sounding, powerful trumpet, although a bit warmer and broader than the normal 37... But no professionals classical musicians seem to play them that I can find?

Is there a reason? Or are there lots of guys playing them in orchestra etc that I just aren't aware of?

(Also, for what it's worth, I did try the search function first but didn't see anything about this... Forgive me if that's not the case...)

[jaysonr]

I owned a 72G/43 once, it wasn't lightweight. I bought it from a guy who used it extensively for Big Band and Solo Jazz (and he sat in the Jazz chair in the big band). For me, I found it was a nice all-around horn. I never had trouble matching or blending with players using the standard 37/25 setup. Very free blowing. Every player is different though, and several people who tried my horn did not like it. I sold it over 10 years ago, and often I wish I had kept it.

Also, as for the search function, instead of using the one built into the site, try Google and do something like this "site:trumpetherald.com bach 72 classical"
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[a.kemp]

Classical players tend to prefer the 37 because of the focus and core.

The 72 has much more spread. (Not to say it couldn't work!)

[GordonH]

Is that not the standard bell on the MLV? if it is then there have been classical players who have used the MLV, nicknamed "Vindobona" which was the Rman name for Vienna, where Vincent Bach came from.
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[snichols]

I use a 72 for classical. To put it in context, I picked it out when I was only 16 or 17 and probably didn't know exactly what I was doing, but I haven't had an issue with blend or anything. It is actually nice and open, and I can get some really big sound out of it when I want to.

On the other end of that, I do sometimes feel like because it is so open and big, I feel like it can be a little tubby and harder to focus/control. It can be a little squirrely for very technical passages.

I think if I were to buy another Bb for classical with the knowledge and experience I have now, it would probably be one more similar in style to a 37, with a little more focus and core, and firmer slots... I wouldn't want to get rid of my 72 for it though, as I still really like the way it plays, and would probably continue to use it for jazz, lead, Wagner orchestral passages... you know, things that a big broad sound would work well for.

Just my thoughts...

[Dayton]

When I play Bb in my community orchestra I often use my Getzen 3051, which has a 72-style heavyweight bell. Our section covers the bases: a Bach 37, my Getzen with the 72 bell, and a Bach 43. Anyway, the 72-style bell works well for me.

[shermantrumpet]

I played a large bore 72 (standard, not lightweight) for decades in quintets, symphonies, all my work. I still have the horn and think it's one of the best B-flats I've played, but it was just too big. Quite possibly that was the large bore rather than the 72 bell, so I wouldn't discount the 72. I have run into very few 72's out there among classical players, but I blended with a lot of them while playing mine.

If you love the way the horn plays and you match when you play with others, then the 72 is a great classical horn for you.

[gbdeamer]

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

[LittleRusty]

[shermantrumpet]

I mostly used it on Carmen, Ein Heldenleben, etc. in the orchestras. Low F rep (concert E-flat). Not too big for that; I would probably use it if I played Heldenleben again.

Solo/quintet work is where mine was too big, but again, that's probably the large bore at work. An ML with a 72 bell might be great.

[ljazztrm]

A good amount of Broadway cats and classical I know like the Bach '72' bell - For hardcore, high note lead playing at a very high volume, sometimes without a mic, both myself and other players agree that it can be too big a bell/flare for a lot of us. I prefer a '37' style bell and flare for this type of playing and am used to it for overall work as well. The two most common set-ups I come across in my playing are the typical ML .459./.460 bore and 4 7/8th - 5-inch bell with the '37' style flare. And, more recently, the Shew set-up with the .445 bore and 5 - inch bell with the bigger flare - also a bigger bore at the tuning slide in this set-up.

The Shew style set-up may be the most extremely efficient and versatile set-up I've played. But with so many custom horn makers out there now, there's no telling what could work the best for you. And there's many more variables that create resistance/openness than the general specs I mentioned to you - You can have a horn with bigger specs that blows with more resistance and visa-versa - The trumpet makers who really know about all this post some interesting info here on the TH from time to time. Best, Lex
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[cheiden]

I think for many the 72 bell with a conventional legit mouthpiece could make for more work when compared to other setups. But if you're up to it the sound is terrific.
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[James Becker]

We had Stephen Anderson's 180L72-43 Bb trumpet here in the shop April of 2010 for a PVA . He's a regular here on TH, perhaps he'll chime in and share his experience playing a standard weight Bach 72 (large bore) in a classical setting.

His bio can be read here http://www.dso.org/page.aspx?page_id=390

I hope this is helpful.
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[amzi]

I use my 72 MLV (standard weight) for symphony work. I don't have any problem blending though both other guys in my section play a Schilke (not sure which one). I understand that one of the trumpets with the Seattle Symphony plays an MLV, (not sure which one) and I don't know if he uses it for orchestral work.
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[shofarguy]

Okay, I have my flame suit at the ready...

I am of the opinion that the 37 Bach has become the Bb standard for orchestra because it is able to produce a consolidated trumpet sound at low to medium decibel levels. Larger bore and larger bell trumpets produce a larger sound that can overwhelm the ensemble with little effort and do not necessarily sound as clear and trumpet-like at lower volume levels.

My first Wild Thing was like this to an extreme. As a solo horn it had no peer, IMO, but for section work, it really did best in an amplified instrument ensemble and when paired with another WT. The current horn is much better as a section instrument and still fantastic as a solo trumpet.

I remember seeing Andre Rieu and his orchestra in Rancho Cucamonga, CA some years ago. He had two trumpets. Their horns had the traditional double braced tuning slide, so I imagine they were either Bachs or Yamahas. I never heard them more than for one or two notes all night long. They were playing, I guess, but the sound rarely (if ever) reached where I was sitting.

But, heck, who comes to hear trumpets when there are strings, right?
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[mcgovnor]

Most guys playing in major orchestras in the US don't perform too much on Bb trumpets.
The guys I've known played 37 bells. A focused horn with opened throats on deep large Bach mouthpieces.

[Trumpetingbynurture]

Generally, it sounds like the trouble with the 72 in a classical setting is the diffusion/spread of sound, which I suspect is probably most noticeable in the lower register...? (And what a few have termed as 'tubby'?)

The problem I have is that there is a sound in my head that I simply can't get to come out of the instrument I'm currently playing. It's one of those things I expect that once you get so far in your playing, you start to have a very definite sound concept in your mind beyond simply a 'clean' or 'pure' sound. There's a certain blend and richness in the tone I imagine (For classical repertoire) that I can't achieve on my current instrument which is more of a jazz trumpet. I can get a reasonable amount of different timbres out of it, but not, apparently not that timbre, so I'm probably going to make it my Jazz/lead horn. (Not that I actually play and lead gigs at the moment, but just in case, you know...)

Which means getting an instrument I can produce my sound concept with (or at least get close!). I'm suspecting the sound in my head is probably either a Bach C trumpet of a Bach 37, with appropriate mouthpieces of course.

Here's how my tastes run sound wise, but this is based on recordings as none of them have played in my city, so this is probably not very accurate:

Phil Smith - Like most people, Phil Smith is WAY up there in terms of... everything...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1zisPbFy44

Sergei Nakariakov - I like the thickness/density, but seems to be a bit too on the dark compared to my concept. Not enough brilliance/ring in the sound?
https://youtu.be/Wqvjj9V84ps?t=10m56s
For me, his tone is like a dark red ruby. It sparkles and glitters, but it's mostly a very solid and deep sound.

Geoffrey Payne - I like his sound. The guys is kind of Australia's Phil Smith.
https://youtu.be/0W2sU4QpnNM
For me, his tone is like a donut, thick around the outside, but hollow in the middle. (The hollowness isn't bad, it's like a 'resonant space' in the centre...)

Tine Thing Helseth - Maybe a little too compact... She almost has an oboe like timbre sometimes.

---

I'm going to slowly start auditioning some trumpets and see, but the problem I anticipate is that I wont be able to play test them in a large performance space, which is going to change how it sounds to me vs out front at 30+ yards.

[Andy Del]

Not trying to drop names, but the Czech regional orchestra Sinfonia Bohuslava Martinu uses Bach 72/25R Bb's. Those guys sound fantastic, although some of the younger guys do use Cs as well.

I use a Kanstul 1500A which is sort of close to a 72 bell. Love it.

cheers

Andy
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[rockford]

The 72 bell was originally designed as a rotary trumpet bell and was offered in a piston version for orchestral players wanting that darker rotary/cornet sound and for all around playing. It's great for lead players on smaller mouthpieces who want to mellow out their sound some. My impression is it can get tubby and unwieldy at times and requires more effort to play than a more standard set up. For me it's sort of like playing a mouthpiece that's too large. Sounds great for a while but ultimately too much work to sound good at the end of the three hour engagement. It's a lot of trumpet.
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