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Bflatman
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Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 720
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 Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Sticking valves are almost invariably dirty valves and chambers, its the chambers that are almost always the problem because players clean the valves and think that is the problem, the dirt remains on the chamber walls and is never shifted, the player then concludes it must need a valve job because cleaning the valve didnt fix it.
The valve job will always fix the problem but why do it if you dont need that. I have never had a valve job on any instrument and players who handle my instruments are always astounded by my valves.
The valve wipes dirt and oil down onto the chamber wall on the downstroke and doesnt remove it on the upstroke, and there it sits, the oil then evaporates leaving a dirt buildup on the walls below the valve. Then when you depress the valve it sticks at the bottom on the crud left behind and slowly rises.
Clean the walls as well as the valve then oil and see if the problem remains. If it does, clean again and again and again. after cleaning 4 times oil 4 times play and oil, then see if the problem remains. A chem clean may be needed.
All of my instruments started with stuck or sticking valves, and after cleaning all without exception are problem free. It was always dirt that was the problem and nothing else. |
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trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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^^ If you aren't scrubbing your valves off with a valve brush, and then swabbing them out with cheese cloth or similar, you're not really doing it right. I don't always swab out the valve casings, but I always scrub them out with my nylon bristled valve brush when I bathe my horns.
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Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bflatman wrote: | Sticking valves are almost invariably dirty valves and chambers, its the chambers that are almost always the problem because players clean the valves and think that is the problem, the dirt remains on the chamber walls and is never shifted, the player then concludes it must need a valve job because cleaning the valve didnt fix it.
The valve job will always fix the problem but why do it if you dont need that. I have never had a valve job on any instrument and players who handle my instruments are always astounded by my valves.
The valve wipes dirt and oil down onto the chamber wall on the downstroke and doesnt remove it on the upstroke, and there it sits, the oil then evaporates leaving a dirt buildup on the walls below the valve. Then when you depress the valve it sticks at the bottom on the crud left behind and slowly rises.
Clean the walls as well as the valve then oil and see if the problem remains. If it does, clean again and again and again. after cleaning 4 times oil 4 times play and oil, then see if the problem remains. A chem clean may be needed.
All of my instruments started with stuck or sticking valves, and after cleaning all without exception are problem free. It was always dirt that was the problem and nothing else. |
Hi Bflatman
Thanks very much, but I absolutely assure you that this is not dirt related. I have cleaned and cleaned this trumpet, absolutely everywhere, including the valve casings, tubes between the valves, and out of the valve casings and into all the tubing connecting to the tuning slides, on many occasions. I have had a H W Brass Saver snake absolutely everywhere. I am absolutely convinced that this is therefore not dirt related, unless there is possibly something build up on the valves that will not come off with two laps, an ultrasonic clean and all these multiple very good cleans.
Thanks very much anyhow.
Best wishes
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | ^^ If you aren't scrubbing your valves off with a valve brush, and then swabbing them out with cheese cloth or similar, you're not really doing it right. I don't always swab out the valve casings, but I always scrub them out with my nylon bristled valve brush when I bathe my horns. |
Hi trickg
Yes, I do have a nylon bristled valve brush in addition to the H W Brass Saver, and yes, this is what I have been using to clean my valve casings. I then swab them out with I suppose what equates to cheese cloth, i.e. a lint free cloth. When I mentioned the H W Brass Saver, I was talking about the tubes between the valves and to the slides.
All the best
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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trickg
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2002
Posts: 5677
Location: Glen Burnie, Maryland
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Louise Finch wrote: | Hi trickg
Yes, I do have a nylon bristled valve brush in addition to the H W Brass Saver, and yes, this is what I have been using to clean my valve casings. I then swab them out with I suppose what equates to cheese cloth, i.e. a lint free cloth. When I mentioned the H W Brass Saver, I was talking about the tubes between the valves and to the slides.
All the best
Lou |
Hey Lou - I wasn't suggesting that you personally weren't maintaining your horn properly. You've been around the block enough as a player to know the ins and outs of proper instrument cleaning and maintenance. That comment was just a generalized comment about how to make sure buildup gets scrubbed and swabbed off of valves and valve casings.
_________________
Patrick Gleason
- Jupiter 1600i, ACB 3C, Warburton 4SVW/Titmus RT2
- Brasspire Unicorn C
- ACB Doubler
"95% of the average 'weekend warrior's' problems will be solved by an additional 30 minutes of insightful practice." - PLP |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| trickg wrote: | | Louise Finch wrote: | Hi trickg
Yes, I do have a nylon bristled valve brush in addition to the H W Brass Saver, and yes, this is what I have been using to clean my valve casings. I then swab them out with I suppose what equates to cheese cloth, i.e. a lint free cloth. When I mentioned the H W Brass Saver, I was talking about the tubes between the valves and to the slides.
All the best
Lou |
Hey Lou - I wasn't suggesting that you personally weren't maintaining your horn properly. You've been around the block enough as a player to know the ins and outs of proper instrument cleaning and maintenance. That comment was just a generalized comment about how to make sure buildup gets scrubbed and swabbed off of valves and valve casings. |
Hi trickg
No worries, but thanks for the clarification.
Take care
Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187
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| Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Bflatman wrote: | Sticking valves are almost invariably dirty valves and chambers, its the chambers that are almost always the problem because players clean the valves and think that is the problem, the dirt remains on the chamber walls and is never shifted, the player then concludes it must need a valve job because cleaning the valve didnt fix it.
The valve job will always fix the problem but why do it if you dont need that. I have never had a valve job on any instrument and players who handle my instruments are always astounded by my valves.
The valve wipes dirt and oil down onto the chamber wall on the downstroke and doesnt remove it on the upstroke, and there it sits, the oil then evaporates leaving a dirt buildup on the walls below the valve. Then when you depress the valve it sticks at the bottom on the crud left behind and slowly rises.
Clean the walls as well as the valve then oil and see if the problem remains. If it does, clean again and again and again. after cleaning 4 times oil 4 times play and oil, then see if the problem remains. A chem clean may be needed.
All of my instruments started with stuck or sticking valves, and after cleaning all without exception are problem free. It was always dirt that was the problem and nothing else. |
Effective but time consuming. (OCD) Or get an ustrasonic cleaning. (USC) |
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