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Should I keep my Bach 37


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pinstriper
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
Hi Lou

This may see, like a life or death decision, but it isn't. It's actually a very simple one, if a little brutal. Sell th damn 37, and be rid of this albatross!

First up, this 37 still doesn't work. Therefore it is USELESS. Like an old car, it's not worth having in the garage if you can't play it.

Second up, you have a Bb you like. The whole 'backup horn' is a load of codswollop. Your trumpet goes down, you get it fixed nad use something else, begged, borrowed or stolen for the interim.

Third, you can use some of the (low amount) of funds to get yourself into a C. That is a use of your cash, rather than leaving it stuck in a useless horn.

There you go! Easy, right?

Cheers

Andy


I have to say I agree with this, given that Lou has already stated unequivocally that she's keeping and prefers the Xeno. In that case, the 37 has no role. It isn't the primary horn, and she has the Boosey as her backup.

Selling the 37 and/or the Boosey to fund the C is pretty logical, unless you get hung up with the "Bach 37 Mistique" which, sadly, this particular 37 lacks.

So which is the "luxury" ? Having the 37 you won't play ? Or having the C that you will ? It really comes down to choosing which is more important.

Lou, I apologize for breaking my rule and actually giving advice. It's not my money, and not my decision. I'm only trying to help frame the decision for you, given the constraints you're stating. You have to do what makes sense to you.
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Morogan
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
Being an admittedly very enthusiastic amateur but an amateur none the less,
I have no career to progress. Even though I'm 43 and have been playing 23 years, I feel that I have made quite a big leap forward lately in my playing,
and some of this I put down to sticking to one trumpet and one cornet set-up. Additionally, last time I was this happy with my trumpet playing, I was also playing a Yamaha, the YTR-6335HGII which I have always regretted selling. As much as I like my Bach, I've never been quite a confident on it as I have been the Yamahas. Maybe it is just coincidence, as although I now play a Yamaha Xeno cornet, I had a lot of success with my Bach 184ML for many years. I wonder if most of it has simply been mouthpiece gap, as the Bach 7C I used on my previous Yamaha trumpet coincidentally gaps how I've dialled in a 3C on my Xeno II, whereas I believe that I played my Bach 37 with a too large gap for me for years, owing to a switch to a 3C that inserted less far, and not yet having experimented with gap.

Anyone that's invested 23 years into anything has earned the right to call it a career, regardless of professional/amateur status (at least in my book!). I am dealing with a gap issue myself with my 8345IIGS, so I certainly understand what you've dealt with successfully with sleeves. I have a new mouthpiece and sleeves arriving tomorrow, in fact.

Louise Finch wrote:
I just want to play too, and have also become less interested in the playing characteristics of my instruments, being confident that I'll dialled them in to best suit me already, and what is now needed is a good consistent daily practice routine.

Absolutely; well stated!

Cheers,
M
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trickg wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
trickg wrote:
Does it need a whole valve job, or would having a tech lap/buff the valve and casing take care of whatever the issue might be?


Hi trickg

I have no idea. In the short time that Will Spencer spent with it, he felt that the valves were not overly worn and the compression was ok, so tried a gentle lapping to see whether it would bed in. It didn't. Will felt that the alternative was therefore a valve rebuild or fitting a replacement oversized piston. He didn't want to take on the job at the time owing to issues with his plater, so I tried another firm. I wanted a thorough assessment of the issue and a discussion before any work was carried out. I got a second lapping and the issue is still there. I really feel that what is needed is a thorough assessment. I have emailed Will Spencer again to see whether he would be happy to have another look at my trumpet, and am still awaiting his response.

Best wishes

Lou

If that's the case, it's not doing you much good to keep it. You might be able to sell it at a discount to someone here stateside who might have better luck finding someone to do the valve work that needs to be done - you'd have to sell it at a discount though - I wouldn't buy a horn with a known valve issue unless I could get it low enough to make it worth my time and money to get it fixed.

All of this is unfortunate - it sounds to me like this is otherwise a really nice trumpet, and if it was in proper working order, would at least be the equivalent of the Xeno, or at least another option that could be used.


Hi trickg

Thanks very much. It is unfortunate. I have sent Will Spencer a second email to check whether he has received my first. Still no response. Maybe his is on holiday or something. I also contacted another repairer that has previously been recommended to me in the UK. No response when I emailed him two years ago, no response so far this time.

Take care

Lou
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy Del wrote:
Hi Lou

This may see, like a life or death decision, but it isn't. It's actually a very simple one, if a little brutal. Sell th damn 37, and be rid of this albatross!

First up, this 37 still doesn't work. Therefore it is USELESS. Like an old car, it's not worth having in the garage if you can't play it.

Second up, you have a Bb you like. The whole 'backup horn' is a load of codswollop. Your trumpet goes down, you get it fixed nad use something else, begged, borrowed or stolen for the interim.

Third, you can use some of the (low amount) of funds to get yourself into a C. That is a use of your cash, rather than leaving it stuck in a useless horn.

There you go! Easy, right?

Cheers

Andy


Hi Andy

Thanks very much for you advice. I do understand what you are saying.

Take care

Lou
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad361 wrote:

Hi Lou,

Hi Brad

Two suggestions: even though he is not a valve specialist per se, have you talked to Andy Taylor?

No, I haven't contacted Andy Taylor. Thank you very much for suggesting him.

Or maybe you could contact someone in the states like Doctor Valve (Steve Winans), he or another well known tech may be able to recommend a good valve technician in the UK.

Another good idea, thanks very much.

I realize there could be financial issues, but it seems a shame to sell a good horn that you like because of a problem like this; it’s definitely fixable.

I can't sell it as it is or really play it either, so finding a good tech is the only real option.

Brad

Take care

Lou

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Kanstul F Besson C
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- James R New Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinstriper wrote:
Andy Del wrote:
Hi Lou

This may see, like a life or death decision, but it isn't. It's actually a very simple one, if a little brutal. Sell th damn 37, and be rid of this albatross!

First up, this 37 still doesn't work. Therefore it is USELESS. Like an old car, it's not worth having in the garage if you can't play it.

Second up, you have a Bb you like. The whole 'backup horn' is a load of codswollop. Your trumpet goes down, you get it fixed nad use something else, begged, borrowed or stolen for the interim.

Third, you can use some of the (low amount) of funds to get yourself into a C. That is a use of your cash, rather than leaving it stuck in a useless horn.

There you go! Easy, right?

Cheers

Andy


I have to say I agree with this, given that Lou has already stated unequivocally that she's keeping and prefers the Xeno. In that case, the 37 has no role. It isn't the primary horn, and she has the Boosey as her backup.

Selling the 37 and/or the Boosey to fund the C is pretty logical, unless you get hung up with the "Bach 37 Mistique" which, sadly, this particular 37 lacks.

Hi pinstriper

Thanks very much. I won't be selling the Boosey and Hawkes. It has so little monetary value it would be pointless.


So which is the "luxury" ? Having the 37 you won't play ? Or having the C that you will ? It really comes down to choosing which is more important.

Lou, I apologize for breaking my rule and actually giving advice. It's not my money, and not my decision. I'm only trying to help frame the decision for you, given the constraints you're stating. You have to do what makes sense to you.

Please don't apologise, your advice is really appreciated.

Take care

Lou

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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
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Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Morogan wrote:

Anyone that's invested 23 years into anything has earned the right to call it a career, regardless of professional/amateur status (at least in my book!).

Hi Morogan

Thanks very much.


I am dealing with a gap issue myself with my 8345IIGS, so I certainly understand what you've dealt with successfully with sleeves. I have a new mouthpiece and sleeves arriving tomorrow, in fact.

I hope that they work out for you.

Louise Finch wrote:
I just want to play too, and have also become less interested in the playing characteristics of my instruments, being confident that I'll dialled them in to best suit me already, and what is now needed is a good consistent daily practice routine.

Absolutely; well stated!

Thanks very much.

Cheers,
M

Cheers to you too.

Lou

_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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dr_trumpet
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
trickg wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
trickg wrote:
Does it need a whole valve job, or would having a tech lap/buff the valve and casing take care of whatever the issue might be?


Hi trickg

I have no idea. In the short time that Will Spencer spent with it, he felt that the valves were not overly worn and the compression was ok, so tried a gentle lapping to see whether it would bed in. It didn't. Will felt that the alternative was therefore a valve rebuild or fitting a replacement oversized piston. He didn't want to take on the job at the time owing to issues with his plater, so I tried another firm. I wanted a thorough assessment of the issue and a discussion before any work was carried out. I got a second lapping and the issue is still there. I really feel that what is needed is a thorough assessment. I have emailed Will Spencer again to see whether he would be happy to have another look at my trumpet, and am still awaiting his response.

Best wishes

Lou

If that's the case, it's not doing you much good to keep it. You might be able to sell it at a discount to someone here stateside who might have better luck finding someone to do the valve work that needs to be done - you'd have to sell it at a discount though - I wouldn't buy a horn with a known valve issue unless I could get it low enough to make it worth my time and money to get it fixed.

All of this is unfortunate - it sounds to me like this is otherwise a really nice trumpet, and if it was in proper working order, would at least be the equivalent of the Xeno, or at least another option that could be used.


Hi trickg

Thanks very much. It is unfortunate. I have sent Will Spencer a second email to check whether he has received my first. Still no response. Maybe his is on holiday or something. I also contacted another repairer that has previously been recommended to me in the UK. No response when I emailed him two years ago, no response so far this time.

Take care

Lou


Lou,

You might look into replacement valve stems. Sometimes, a valve stem can get slightly bent and cause a valve to hang, and yet it won't show during a brief test as the amount of hang is minimal and takes the heat of playing a horn for the metals to expand enough to cause the hang. I use Curry action rods, and they seem to eliminate all of that kind of issue

The other thing that can happen is a worn valve guide, which can cause play in a valve and the alignment to get out of sync with the valve case. A simple switch with new valve guides can tell if that is the issue.

The third thing to consider is that the valve body parts (two part valve, valve and spring casing) are not aligned. That is less rare and would imply a replacement of the valve is likely necessary. It would also show up most consistently, and since the issue is intermitent (if I read correctly), likely less an issue.

The other things that could be a problem should have been solved by lapping the valve. Twice, and it should have disappeared completely.

AL
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_trumpet wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
trickg wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
trickg wrote:
Does it need a whole valve job, or would having a tech lap/buff the valve and casing take care of whatever the issue might be?


Hi trickg

I have no idea. In the short time that Will Spencer spent with it, he felt that the valves were not overly worn and the compression was ok, so tried a gentle lapping to see whether it would bed in. It didn't. Will felt that the alternative was therefore a valve rebuild or fitting a replacement oversized piston. He didn't want to take on the job at the time owing to issues with his plater, so I tried another firm. I wanted a thorough assessment of the issue and a discussion before any work was carried out. I got a second lapping and the issue is still there. I really feel that what is needed is a thorough assessment. I have emailed Will Spencer again to see whether he would be happy to have another look at my trumpet, and am still awaiting his response.

Best wishes

Lou

If that's the case, it's not doing you much good to keep it. You might be able to sell it at a discount to someone here stateside who might have better luck finding someone to do the valve work that needs to be done - you'd have to sell it at a discount though - I wouldn't buy a horn with a known valve issue unless I could get it low enough to make it worth my time and money to get it fixed.

All of this is unfortunate - it sounds to me like this is otherwise a really nice trumpet, and if it was in proper working order, would at least be the equivalent of the Xeno, or at least another option that could be used.


Hi trickg

Thanks very much. It is unfortunate. I have sent Will Spencer a second email to check whether he has received my first. Still no response. Maybe his is on holiday or something. I also contacted another repairer that has previously been recommended to me in the UK. No response when I emailed him two years ago, no response so far this time.

Take care

Lou


Lou,

You might look into replacement valve stems. Sometimes, a valve stem can get slightly bent and cause a valve to hang, and yet it won't show during a brief test as the amount of hang is minimal and takes the heat of playing a horn for the metals to expand enough to cause the hang. I use Curry action rods, and they seem to eliminate all of that kind of issue

Hi Al

Thank you very much for your kind suggestion.


The other thing that can happen is a worn valve guide, which can cause play in a valve and the alignment to get out of sync with the valve case. A simple switch with new valve guides can tell if that is the issue.

I've already done this, thanks very much to Lionel, yourbrass of this forum, who very kindly sent me some replacement metal valve guides and replacement springs.

The third thing to consider is that the valve body parts (two part valve, valve and spring casing) are not aligned. That is less rare and would imply a replacement of the valve is likely necessary. It would also show up most consistently, and since the issue is intermitent (if I read correctly), likely less an issue.

Thanks very much, and I agree that this is less likely to be an issue with a 1979 trumpet.

The other things that could be a problem should have been solved by lapping the valve. Twice, and it should have disappeared completely.

If you don't mind me asking, what are the possible problems that could be solved by lapping the valve? Although Will Spencer originally said that the compression of my valves is ok, owing to the age of the instrument, it has previously been suggested that valve wear may be the issue. Although I can see that lapping could deal with uneven valve wear, if a valve was overly worn, then I cannot see how taking more metal off could help.

AL

Thanks very much again.

Take care

Lou

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Trumpets:
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Kanstul F Besson C
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- James R New Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

I'm just taking a break during a practice session, owing to my children wanting something. After my initial warm up on cornet (I usually do all my home practice on cornet, works for me), I got out my Bach 37 for the first time in months and decided to go back to my usual Yamaha Synthetic Light valve oil. Half an hour or so in, and the first valve hasn't yet stuck. Maybe this valve will bed in after all. I've decided to give it a bit of a try in my band situations, making sure that I always have my Xeno with me in case the valve starts sticking again. I've decided that the 6.25 sleeve that Jim New made for me works well for me on this trumpet.

Thanks very much everyone for your kind suggestions, which have been really appreciated.

Best wishes

Lou
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Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
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Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
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- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi again

I fully appreciate that I probably should oil before playing, but this has never worked well for me. It is not practical in the band room, and when I practise at home, I like to get on with it. My usual routine is therefore to let the water out after playing, re-oil, blow through with the valves down to make sure that all of the valves are seated properly, swab through until the swab is dry, then put away for next time.

Although the valves of my Bach 37 didn't stick throughout an for around an hour practise session, the 1st valve stick stick on the upstroke after holding down the valves to blow through after putting the valves back after oiling. As I have said previously, it is worse with thicker oil and after oiling. I am certain that there is absolutely no dirt in my trumpet which is mixing with the oil, as this trumpet has had a ridiculous number of very thorough cleans and I managed to get my H W Brass Saver through everywhere, and I hadn't even played the trumpet after oiling, and had just held the valve down whilst I blew through to check that the valves were seated fully.

Another thing is that there is something odd with the compression of this trumpet. When I removed the second slide to let out the water, it popped like I expected but less so than with my other instruments, but whereas with my Yamaha instruments there is obvious compression when I return the slide, resulting in me needing to press the second valve down, there was hardly any when I put the second slide back in of my Bach 37, and I pressed the 2nd valve really for the sake of it.. The 2nd slide is not particularly loose.

Anyway, it played well today, and I am going to give it another try.

Best wishes

Lou
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Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
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chuck in ny
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

intuition and superstition can be your friend. iirc this has been a bad luck horn and has caused you anguish. you are keeping this around as a reminder of your pain?
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TKSop
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lou,

Albert mentioned valve stems... IIRC I might have some lying around somewhere, I'll have a look over the next couple of days - if I can find them they're yours buddy.
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cjl
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:
cjl wrote:
Well, I'm biased, but I'll keep my own Bach 37 (a 1979 model, similar in age to yours, I believe) and my same age Bach 239 even past the bitter end (which I may be at since I haven't played trumpet in months now).

Hi Joe

Thanks very much. I hope that you are ok in yourself and you have simply been too busy to play trumpet, rather than not sufficiently well.

Hello Lou,
Thank you for your concern but my absence from the trumpet is voluntary.

After 40+ yrs of playing with some limited success and now dwindling abilities, I have switched instruments. The little band I play with has had beaucoup trumpets and zero tubas for a while now so I have switched to tuba. I am enjoying playing tuba and have no endurance problems at all where on the trumpet, if I haven't been practicing a LOT, I could not last through the rehearsal.

While I still love the trumpet, the tuba is allowing me to keep playing and contributing to the group.

Take care,
Joe
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

chuck in ny wrote:
intuition and superstition can be your friend. iirc this has been a bad luck horn and has caused you anguish. you are keeping this around as a reminder of your pain?


Hi chuck in ny

Gosh! I really hope not, but yes this trumpet does have bad associations, and even though the valves didn't stick yesterday, I'm still planning to take my Yamaha to my orchestra rehearsals tomorrow and Tuesday.

Best wishes Lou



I'm still trying to decide whether I could do with a C. I play in a symphony orchestra and community light orchestra every week, in addition to my brass band and Jazz band. Obviously I use cornet for brass band, and Bb trumpet for Jazz band (+ flugel). The trumpets parts in my symphony orchestra have already been transposed for Bb, and the community light orchestra parts are nearly always for a Bb trumpet, and the ones that aren't (mainly more serious orchestral works), have usually already been transposed. I therefore do not need a C on a weekly basis.

I however also play in another symphony orchestra, a few times a year. The trumpet parts for this orchestra have rarely been transposed for Bb, and since I get the parts a month - six weeks in advance, I normally transpose them in advance. So far, parts for a D trumpet have been the most common, followed by parts for a C trumpet, and when I played Brahms in the summer, I borrowed a C, as the transpositions were easier for a C trumpet.

I'm playing Mendelssohn's Symphony in A Minor, Op. 56 Scottish (for a trumpet in D, trumpet in C and back to a trumpet in D) and Weber's Der Freischütz Overture, Op.77 next month (part is for a trumpet in C). I'm going to use my Bb, simply because I already have a transposed part for the Mendelssohn, from when I played it previously, and the Weber wasn't too much of a job. I could transpose on the day, but since I have the parts a long way in advance, I'd rather transpose before hand so I can concentrate on other things, mainly counting the rests. As a brass bander used to playing most of the time, the hardest thing I have found about orchestral playing is counting the rests. Probably it is me, but I sometimes find that my mind drifts completely, or at fast speeds, I forget which multiple of ten comes after the 9 i.e is it 50 or 60. I try and cue in the number of bars in each of the phrases I'm resting, as counting 4 bars of eight makes more musical sense to me than 32 bars.

Anyway, getting back to what I am playing next month, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to play a Bb when all the parts I'm having to play are for either trumpet in C or the transposition for parts for a trumpet in D, is easier on C than Bb.

I borrowed a 1980s Kanstul made Besson Meha C for the summer, and had good results with it. It played well with the mouthpiece and even the sleeve I use on my Yamaha Bb, and I found it easy to switch between my Bb and this C, as they seemed to blow similarly to each other. The only other C I have played and this was only very briefly, was a Yamaha Xeno C.

I'm not sure whether I was lucky to be kindly lent a C which was easy to switch to from my particular Bb, or whether the Bb to C trumpet switch isn't as difficult as I expected it to be. I suppose I'd have to try other Cs to find out.

What I'm wondering, is whether it would make more sense having a C that I'm only going to play in the weeks leading up to a few jobs a year, than a second Bb, which I don't really need at all, since I have a 3rd Bb, which I already keep simply as a spare.

Best wishes

Lou
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Louise Finch
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TKSop wrote:
Lou,

Albert mentioned valve stems... IIRC I might have some lying around somewhere, I'll have a look over the next couple of days - if I can find them they're yours buddy.


Hi TKSop

This would be really appreciated. Thanks very much for your very kind offer.

Take care

Lou
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Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5461
Location: Suffolk, England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cjl wrote:
Louise Finch wrote:
cjl wrote:
Well, I'm biased, but I'll keep my own Bach 37 (a 1979 model, similar in age to yours, I believe) and my same age Bach 239 even past the bitter end (which I may be at since I haven't played trumpet in months now).

Hi Joe

Thanks very much. I hope that you are ok in yourself and you have simply been too busy to play trumpet, rather than not sufficiently well.

Hello Lou,
Thank you for your concern but my absence from the trumpet is voluntary.

Hi Joe

Thanks very much for the clarification. I'm very pleased to hear this.


After 40+ yrs of playing with some limited success and now dwindling abilities, I have switched instruments. The little band I play with has had beaucoup trumpets and zero tubas for a while now so I have switched to tuba. I am enjoying playing tuba and have no endurance problems at all where on the trumpet, if I haven't been practicing a LOT, I could not last through the rehearsal.

While I still love the trumpet, the tuba is allowing me to keep playing and contributing to the group.

I'm sorry to hear that you feel that your abilities are dwindling on trumpet, but am pleased to hear that you are enjoying playing tuba and not having endurance problems.

Take care,
Joe

Take care also

Lou


_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs
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Ed Kennedy
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 3187

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding transopsition and alternative key trumpets. I was taught by old school players who had been students of Vacchiano, Voisin, members of the Philadelphia orchestra whose names escape me. As a freshman I started on the Sachse book and transposed everything on a Bb including down a step (Bb on a C) down a minor third (A on C) Even into the '60' and 70's there were a number of orchestral section players who rarely if ever used a C. They used Bb for everything. Other keyed trumpets are great for making difficult passages more secure. If you are not playing principal, I don't think a C is necessary unless you are playing professionally in a section that demands the timbre of a C and the homogeneity of all members playing the same instrument. Practice transposition. The more you do it the easier it gets.
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dr_trumpet
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 22 Nov 2001
Posts: 2533
Location: Cope, IN

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louise Finch wrote:

If you don't mind me asking, what are the possible problems that could be solved by lapping the valve? Although Will Spencer originally said that the compression of my valves is ok, owing to the age of the instrument, it has previously been suggested that valve wear may be the issue. Although I can see that lapping could deal with uneven valve wear, if a valve was overly worn, then I cannot see how taking more metal off could help.


Sometimes, a drop will cause the valve face to have a slight flat spot on it, and lapping can solve that issue with a mimimum of additional damage. Lapping a valve does take a slight amount of metal off in the process. Fine lapping compound is designed to be very minimally abrassive, but enough to solve issues of wear and dirt build-up. Additionally, valve casings can take a blow in the case that can cause just enough of a bend or torque that causes a protrusion of the most minimal nature, but enough to cause the valve to hang, sometimes so small that the horn has to first warm and expand (and the valve and valve casing expand at different rates, causing the dent, however minute, to rub and cause a hang in the valve movement). The third option is the minimal bend of a valve slide port on the vavle (usually again from a blow or a dent of the valve slide) that causes a slight torque where the valve slide enters the casing, causing the valve to hang.

All of these should have been resolved through careful measurement before the valve was lapped, and if only minute, the valve casing or valve body should have been lapped back into round again.

That is why the valve stem might be an issue, as none of the above in the lapping process involves the stem. A slightly tweeked stem can cause a minute sideways depression of the valve, and that can cause a valve to stick.

All my best,

AL
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Dr. Albert L. Lilly, III DM
Artist/Clinician for Vincent Bach Trumpets (Conn-Selmer)
Principal Trumpet, Hendricks Symphony (Avon, IN)
Arranger/Composer; Lilly Music
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fredo
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 588
Location: France

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lou, fix the valve issue and then cut all those tubes who are too long to play in C.
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Frederic FELTZ
Yamaha XENO 2 8335 S
Lotus 3L brass
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