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Jerry
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 2162
Location: Kennett Square, Pennsylvania
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 Posted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| A 7C is a deep mouthpiece. It's one of Bach's deepest C cups. You're doing better with a wider mouthpiece. My take is you need something narrower than a 1.5 but wider than a 7, with something slightly shallower than the 1.5C. |
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eviln3d
Regular Member
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Posts: 55
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| Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for new mouthpiece (HELP!!!) |
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| Iplaythetrumpet wrote: | Hi there!
I've been struggling to find a good mouthpiece for a while now, so what better place is there to come to than here, to ask for suggestions!
I am no trumpet virtioso, and currently play on a (Yamaha mearsurment) 16d which is roughly the same as a bach 1 1/2 c with a deeper cup. I play this because I have substantially large lips, so this fits snugly. However, my range and endurance suffer a lot than when playing a standard 7c, yet I cannot seem to get through a passage on the 7c without bottoming out.
Any ideas? |
First the large lips requires a particular mouthpiece is bunk. I have very large lips, at one point I remember my band director mentioning that he thought I was more suited to a trombone because of my lips. Well in my prime I could hit G's above double C cold, I also didn't use a huge mouthpiece. I the first one I used was a Schilke 13A4B, in college I switched to a custom mouthpiece that was smaller diameter than a Schilke 6A4A... Point being the diameter of the mouthpiece doesn't follow a set of rules that apply to everyone. I know my mouthpiece is so small that a lot of people can't get a sound out of it but it works for me.
You need to find what works for you. Just because you have large lips doesn't mean you need a large mouthpiece, you need one that is comfortable and you can get a good sound from. Best thing to do is try out different ones, and not just 3 or 4 minutes in a music store you need to try one out for a few days at least just to see how it really works for you.
You also might want to mention what trumpet you are using because some of them can be very stuffy and it might not be the mouthpiece that is giving your as much trouble as the trumpet. I've had some trumpets that I couldn't play above high C on worth a flip because they just felt completely closed and it wouldn't matter what mouthpiece I used the horn was just not right for me... So before you go investing in a new mouthpiece try a different horn and see if you have the same difficulties. |
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Louise Finch
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 5467
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:47 am Post subject: Re: Suggestions for new mouthpiece (HELP!!!) |
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| Iplaythetrumpet wrote: | Hi there!
I've been struggling to find a good mouthpiece for a while now, so what better place is there to come to than here, to ask for suggestions!
I am no trumpet virtioso, and currently play on a (Yamaha mearsurment) 16d which is roughly the same as a bach 1 1/2 c with a deeper cup. I play this because I have substantially large lips, so this fits snugly. However, my range and endurance suffer a lot than when playing a standard 7c, yet I cannot seem to get through a passage on the 7c without bottoming out.
Hi Iplaythetrumpet
I'm responding before reading the rest of the thread, so please accept my apologies if I say something which has been said already. I like to do it this way sometimes, so that I give my full opinion. Bach C cups vary in shape and depth throughout the range. The Bach 7C is one of the deeper ones, and whatever your lip size, if you are managing to bottom out on a Bach 7C, then something is definitely going wrong. Are you sure that you are bottoming out rather than your lips being clamped by the smaller diameter. For example, I have a reasonably full bottom lip and cannot play diameters as small as those with an actual diameter of 16mm or less (I say actual, as although the quoted cup measurement for a Bach 7C is 16.2mm, is is generally thought to have a cup diameter of around 16.5mm), and do better with diameters between 16.5mm and 17mm. For example, the Denis Wick 5 cornet mouthpiece has a 16mm cup diameter and cup as deep as a flugel. I reckon that you'd have to be an ant eater to have any possibility of bottoming out on it. Nevertheless, I can only play it for around half an hour. It starts off feeling cramped and small and articulations seem more difficult. As natural lip swelling occurs from playing, articulations become more and difficult, notes become harder and harder to produce to the point that I can hardly produce a note at all. Keeping with Denis Wick cornet mouthpieces for the purpose of my example I can play the 16.5mm Denis Wick 4 fine, but articulations are easier on the 16.75 Denis Wick 3.
I'd therefore guess that it is the diameter rather than the cup depth of the Bach 7C which is too small for you.
To cut to the chase, I am looking for a new mouthpiece which increases my endurance and range in the upper register (to be used when on lead in a jazz band), but still has a deeper cup than a 7c preferably. A possible candidate for choosing is a bach 8 1/2b, but I cannot really understand all the mouthpiece grading systems as well as I'd like to. I also cannot stress enough that I am not looking for a magical fix to all my playing problems, but just a good lead mouthpiece for a fat lip like me 
I don't think that you will need a mouthpiece deeper than a Bach 7C. If you do, then I think it may be a good idea to have a few lessons from a good teacher, to see whether you can decrease your lip intrusion. I however think that it is more likely that the cup diameter is just too small. This would rule out the Bach 8 1 1/2B too, and I wouldn't suggest a B cup for lead playing anyhow, as not only is the cup probably too deep, Bach B cup mouthpieces also have a Schmitt-style 7 backbore, which is more symphonic in nature.
You say that you currently play a Yamaha 16D. I'd suggest trying a Yamaha 16C4 first. Since this has the same diameter as your 16D but with a shallower cup, it should enable you to ascertain whether you can go shallower.
There is the possibility that the pretty large 16 diameter is allowing you to put too much lip into the cup. If this is the case however, I would expect bottoming out to be more likely on the larger diameter 16C4 than the Bach 7C, owing to the larger diameter allowing the lips to protrude further in the cup.
If you find that you can play the 16C4 fine, since the Yamaha 16 diameter is equivalent to a 1.5 in the Bach numbering system and Curry use the same mouthpiece numbering system, I'd suggest trying a medium shallow Curry cup such as the 1.5ZM (usually marked M rather than ZM on the mouthpiece), 1.5DE, 1.5 Star.
Any ideas?
I really hope that the above will help.
Best wishes
Lou |
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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